Arrow damage

[iso8859-1]

I don't think archers today are comparable to real archers in the 12th century. Especially English longbow archers did several hours of shooting daily. This resulted in deformed arm bones for example.

Britannica states that an English archer "could drive a heavy arrow through armour [...] at medium ranges of 150-300 yds. Each archer would have carried a few selected light arrows for shooting at extreme ranges and could probably have reached 500 yards with these"

If I remember correctly they found longbows with draws of 100# (without any let-of). For crossbows, Britannica states that "draw forces well in excess of 1000 pounds became common". But compared to the crossbow, the longbow was superior.

For all the archers here - could someone translate the power behind a lonbow and his archer to todays terms? What are the ST-values needed to use such a bow?

[Sam Cade]

My draw weight is 71lbs by the scale.
I shoot a somewhat heavy broadhead so I need the poundage to keep the flight from being rainbow-like.
Im shooting heavy so I can confidently take front-quartering shots.
A friends 13 year old son shoots a 70lb PSE. And WINS meat shoots with it :-) Us kentucky folk must be made of sterner stuff than I thought.
Tink Nathan, professional bowhunter uses 90lb+ for elephants.

Anyway, a 120lb bow would be a monster.

http://www.martinarchery.com/faq/facts.php#draww
How modern bows work With all important charts.

(howatt used to make 100lb traditional bows)

[angel_lord]

Originally Posted by iso8859-1

I don't think archers today are comparable to real archers in the 12th century. Especially English longbow archers did several hours of shooting daily. This resulted in deformed arm bones for example.

Britannica states that an English archer "could drive a heavy arrow through amour [...] at medium ranges of 150-300 yds. Each archer would have carried a few selected light arrows for shooting at extreme ranges and could probably have reached 500 yards with these"


If I remember correctly they found longbows with draws of 100# (without any let-of). For crossbows, Britannica states that "draw forces well in excess of 1000 pounds became common". But compared to the crossbow, the longbow was superior.

If you look up the association of European Medieval Martial Arts, they have some good info on longbows and how these ranged shots were achieved.

As far as whether the long bow was superior? Penetration wise –no. Rate of fire wise, you betcha. It really shined in massed archer formations raingin sheets of arrows down field, something one couldn’t do effectively with a crossbow

For all the archers here - could someone translate the power behind a longbow and his archer to today’s terms? What are the ST-values needed to use such a bow?

No, that would require some really arbitrary thinking on my part. I would guess strength 15 at a minimum.

Here is an article about it that I didn’t think was half bad

http://www.thefickeadventure.com/Gam...e/archery.html

Here is a discussion on the forum that talked about it. I didn’t agree with all of the assumptions, but I’m really not an expert, only a studied hobbyist and sport bowman. You might find it useful

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=3539


Actually I would agree. Today's master archers are better IMO. Not because the Archer is any better himself, but because today's bows are far more accurate and reliable, and produce the same results with less stress on the body - plus the modern archer can adjust his bows and arrows in ways a medieval archer never could. That said - the average modern archer is far outstripped by the average longbowman because the average medieval longbowman was a master of his trade, not just an average sport shooter.

100o lb crossbows were (most likely) heavy arbalests i.e.= siege crossbows, usable for punching through the mantlets and wooden covers on battlements during a siege. You can’t really compare it to the longbow because its purpose was different.

[tbone]

A bit of an aside from damage dice and all that, but:

In every RPG I've ever seen, arrows that thwock into a combatant do their damage and then... disappear. No black shafts sticking out of Boromir in games, just points of damage and that's that.

I don't think many gamers *want* to worry about the extra realism of plucking out arrows, or the action penalties for a PC bristling with crossbow bolts... But just out of curiosity, has anyone used houserules for the "aftermath" of arrows (or, eww, javelins and spears), or seen an RPG that does?

[angel_lord]

Originally Posted by tbone

A bit of an aside from damage dice and all that, but:

In every RPG I've ever seen, arrows that thwock into a combatant do their damage and then... disappear. No black shafts sticking out of Boromir in games, just points of damage and that's that.

I don't think many gamers *want* to worry about the extra realism of plucking out arrows, or the action penalties for a PC bristling with crossbow bolts... But just out of curiosity, has anyone used houserules for the "aftermath" of arrows (or, eww, javelins and spears), or seen an RPG that does?

I tired it in GURPS, but it just became too cumbersome and slowed things down. There is a point at which attemtped reality slows down the flow of a game, and for me, that was it.

[Kaell]

Originally Posted by tbone

A bit of an aside from damage dice and all that, but:

In every RPG I've ever seen, arrows that thwock into a combatant do their damage and then... disappear. No black shafts sticking out of Boromir in games, just points of damage and that's that.

I don't think many gamers *want* to worry about the extra realism of plucking out arrows, or the action penalties for a PC bristling with crossbow bolts... But just out of curiosity, has anyone used houserules for the "aftermath" of arrows (or, eww, javelins and spears), or seen an RPG that does?

Doesnt GURPS 4e have rules for removing impailing weapons? Or was that only for Impailing melee weapons?

[angel_lord]

Originally Posted by Kaell

Doesnt GURPS 4e have rules for removing impailing weapons? Or was that only for Impailing melee weapons?

That is on p405 and it is only for impaling melee weapons

[Pagan]

Originally Posted by tbone

A bit of an aside from damage dice and all that, but:

In every RPG I've ever seen, arrows that thwock into a combatant do their damage and then... disappear. No black shafts sticking out of Boromir in games, just points of damage and that's that.

I don't think many gamers *want* to worry about the extra realism of plucking out arrows, or the action penalties for a PC bristling with crossbow bolts... But just out of curiosity, has anyone used houserules for the "aftermath" of arrows (or, eww, javelins and spears), or seen an RPG that does?

In my campaign we use it. If an arrow or other impaling weapon does 4+ points of damage after armor and wound modifiers then it is considered to be stuck in the wound. While in the wound, it gives a penalty equal to half the damage to IQ and DX. Also, every arrow stuck in a person gives them a -1 penalty to their move.

If they break off the shaft, they can further halve these penalties (round down). If they take the time to remove the impaling missile, they must make a First aid -6 roll to remove it without damage (I also have a specialized technique for triage) or they can make a ST roll to remove it, taking half the damage it did going in. A person attempting to remove a impaled weapon from himself must make a Will roll or HT roll to do so.

These rules are fast in play and give the bow, spear, thrown knife, etc a respect you wouldn't believe. The rules are fairly easy to remember also.

Now, I run a fairly realistic fantasy/sword and sorcery game. YMMV with other genres or cineramic games.

[Sam Cade]

Decisions that every PC must make:
Should I wear armor and get an arrow embedded 6 inches deep into my belly so I spend my last few days in agonizing pain before dying of sepsis?
Should I NOT wear armor and get an arrow shot through my torso, killing my horse behind me and dying myself 30 seconds later from blood loss?


...Why do you keep calling me Killer GM?

[Kyle Aaron]

Originally Posted by tbone

I don't think many gamers *want* to worry about the extra realism of plucking out arrows, or the action penalties for a PC bristling with crossbow bolts... But just out of curiosity, has anyone used houserules for the "aftermath" of arrows (or, eww, javelins and spears), or seen an RPG that does?

We use the same rule as for picks, etc. However, in both cases, what we say is,

• ST roll to remove quickly, and weapon does half as much damage coming out as it did going in; round down.
• First Aid roll to remove slowly. If the First Aid scores a critical success, no damage is taken removing the thing. If a success, 1 pt of damage. If a failure, the thing is removed, but does half as much damage coming out as it did going in. If a critical failure, the same damage is done removing it as when ti went in.
• A Diagnosis roll beforehand gives you +1 to the First Aid roll.
• Successful Surgery use removes the weapon with no extra damage.
• When an implaing weapon is still inside a person, make an HT roll. A failure indicates that they are bleeding, a success indicates that the weapon's head is stopping the bleeding. So from this the pcs must decide if it's better to leave the weapon in or not.
• If the person does vigorous activity (such as fighting, running, etc) with the weapon still in them, then they must make a HT roll. A failure causes 1HP to the same location. And of course the weapon's bulk may hinder their action, for example it's hard to crawl down a three-foot high and wide tunnel with a six-foot spear in you.

Since we also use the Bleeding rules, we say that it's necessary to remove the thing in order to do First Aid or Surgery on the wound, and thus stop the bleeding.