10-09-2010, 01:47 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Florida
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Thought I understood the Staff/Spear issue, but...
What I thought I knew:
But then I set out to make a kick-butt spear/staff fighter, and I came across something that throws a monkey wrench into the above. Combination Weapons (MA214) seem to offer another possibility using RAW. (Not to mention the “Qian Kun Ri Yue Dao” that has all kinds of non-staffy attack modes) Take a base quarterstaff, add a Spear, and just for fun add a pick at the other end. You wind up with a 5lb (better for parrying), $90 weapon that can do Sw+2cr, Sw+1Imp, Thr+2cr or Thr+3Imp all at (unmodified) staff skill, plus it can Hook. The downside is that it can’t be thrown and has +1ST requirement, plus it seems that it would be ineligible for the Fine (Balance) mod. In this case Spear skill and Form Mastery is only needed if you want to use the spear 1-handed. Am I missing something? Has there been discussion or clarification on this? Also note that you could do this with a Jo Staff (or even a Yagyuzue or Short Spear) and make a lighter (and shorter reach) weapon… ------------------------------ Another issue is with “Weapons of Quality” (MA216) and Fine (Balanced) option. Does it apply to spears? What about the combo-weapons presented above? And what happens to the +1 balance when wielded with Staff skill? Does it lose the bonus, or is a spear able to be better balanced as a staff than a staff is?!? |
10-09-2010, 02:09 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
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Re: Thought I understood the Staff/Spear issue, but...
I think you're correct on all counts except that form mastery allows one switch per turn. -GEF
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10-09-2010, 02:22 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Florida
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Re: Thought I understood the Staff/Spear issue, but...
Quote:
---------- But the point I'm trying to make is that using combo weapons by RAW, you can stab with the spear portion of a combo staff/spear at full STAFF skill, not staff-2. |
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10-09-2010, 02:56 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Göttingen, Germany
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Re: Thought I understood the Staff/Spear issue, but...
I don't really see why...? I'd say for no penalties you still have to use the spear-skill... after all due to the spearhead and the needed thrusting attack the weapon is IMHO more like a spear than a plain staff, though it has a different balance (but it also has a different balance and handling than a normal quarterstaff)
Last edited by OldSam; 10-09-2010 at 03:00 AM. |
10-09-2010, 03:07 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Florida
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Re: Thought I understood the Staff/Spear issue, but...
Quote:
Yes, this is a departure from other examples of using a spear as a staff, but the above is RAW as per Martial Arts (pg.214). |
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10-09-2010, 04:40 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Göttingen, Germany
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Re: Thought I understood the Staff/Spear issue, but...
Quote:
Thus IMHO it's rather a spear with a pick at the end, than a quarterstaff with a spearhead and a pick. But that's just my interpretation of course... ;) Last edited by OldSam; 10-09-2010 at 04:44 AM. |
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10-09-2010, 06:48 AM | #7 |
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Right Here
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Re: Thought I understood the Staff/Spear issue, but...
Not to sure about this, but I think adding the pick onto it woud unbalance the weapon and to use it properly would require an axe/mace skill. Thus swinging with the pick part not only would need another skill but you could not parry with it that turn do to the unbalancing nature.
Not sure about that, but I hope others who know better may sound off on this.
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10-09-2010, 09:45 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Thought I understood the Staff/Spear issue, but...
Quote:
Last edited by Anaraxes; 10-09-2010 at 09:48 AM. |
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10-09-2010, 10:00 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Florida
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Re: Thought I understood the Staff/Spear issue, but...
I understand your points (and i do not nessicarily disagree)... but that is not the way p214 of Martial Arts reads at all!
It says to start with a base weapon, of which is specificly mentions the staff as a common choice.... and all new attack modes will be based on that weapon's usual skill unless mentioned otherwise. Neither the Pick or Spear addon mentions the use of an additional skill, thus the rules for combo weapons would require you to use staff skill for both the thr+3imp spear strike and the sw+1imp pick swing. Can anyone see where I'm reading the rules for Combination Weapons wrong (on pg.214 of Martial Arts)... or tell me if it's been errat'd or clarified in another thread/book/etc. |
10-09-2010, 10:39 AM | #10 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The former Chochenyo territory
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Re: Thought I understood the Staff/Spear issue, but...
Per the exact wording of the Combination Weapons rules on MA214, yes you are right. It's worth taking a step back and looking at the intent of the entire box, which is to allow minor additions to existing weapons, not transformative ones. Anything created here should get reviewed by the GM to ensure it isn't silly or unbalancing.
For example, you can also use these rules to add a spearpoint to a Hatchet and do Thr+2 imp one-handed, same as a Thrusting Broadsword and better than a Shortsword. My suggestion would be not to treat that box as if it were a weapon design system - that's not its intent.
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combination weapons, spear, staff |
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