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Old 03-05-2011, 10:59 AM   #31
Alden Loveshade
 
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Default Re: Snatcher for One

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
Check some example characters and templates from the various books, and you'll see that the Frequency multiplier is included in the base cost before applying percentage modifiers. Unless you want to say that all the templates in, say, DF:Summoners are wrong.
As it happens, I'm not currently blessed with DF:Summoners, but I am with DF:Allies, so I looked it up. In that book they do appear to be figuring it as you said, which is in conflict with how it's handled for other characteristics as I listed above. However, it's possible they're using "the optional rules for multiplicative modifiers on page 102 of GURPS POWERS" mentioned by BaHalus, or it's possible this shows an inconsistency in the way base cost is defined.

I'll look into this, and if it does appear to be errata (or at least something that needs to be more clearly defined), will submit it to the errata coordinator. It won't be the first time I've pointed out errata (one example specifically about DF is at http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ghlight=weasel)

Thanks for pointing that out!
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Old 03-05-2011, 01:00 PM   #32
Tuoni
 
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Default Re: Snatcher for One

Second column right above the list of enhancements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic pg 38
You can apply the following
enhancements and limitations after
calculating group cost (if applicable)
and multiplying for frequency of
appearance:
Find base cost. Do multiplication. Use that result for determining enhancements and limitations.

Base: 1 pt.
Always available: 1*4=4
Summonable: 4 +100% = 8
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Old 03-05-2011, 01:18 PM   #33
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Default Re: Snatcher for One

Not that the order would affect the final result.

1 + 100% = 2 * 4 = 8

But I think they could have made it more clear with one or two examples.
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Old 03-05-2011, 02:00 PM   #34
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Snatcher for One

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden_Loveshade View Post
However, it's possible they're using "the optional rules for multiplicative modifiers on page 102 of GURPS POWERS" mentioned by BaHalus,
No official GURPS books use anything other than additive costs. Multiplicative Modifers isn't compatible with the normal rules; you cannot use them in the same campaign.

Frequency of appearance isn't a "Modifier" as GURPS uses the term (percentage based enhancements and limitations). It is multiplicative and uses the special rules on B36. This is how the the traits in DF:Allies were determined; it is not errata.
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Old 03-05-2011, 02:24 PM   #35
Not another shrubbery
 
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Default Re: Snatcher for One

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitruvian
No, it's 4 pts +100% = 8 pts. "Frequency of appearance multiplies the point cost for an Associated NPC (p. 31) after determining power level and group size (as applicable) but before you apply any special modifiers." You multiply the point cost for frequency of appearance, then you apply special modifiers such as Minion and Summonable. For all intents and purposes, the cost after taking Frequency into account is the base cost.
Yeah. The text on B36 always seemed pretty clear to me... but I'm not in a position to cast stones at others in cases like this :/ :)
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:39 PM   #36
vitruvian
 
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Default Re: Snatcher for One

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden_Loveshade View Post
As it happens, I'm not currently blessed with DF:Summoners, but I am with DF:Allies, so I looked it up. In that book they do appear to be figuring it as you said, which is in conflict with how it's handled for other characteristics as I listed above. However, it's possible they're using "the optional rules for multiplicative modifiers on page 102 of GURPS POWERS" mentioned by BaHalus, or it's possible this shows an inconsistency in the way base cost is defined.

I'll look into this, and if it does appear to be errata (or at least something that needs to be more clearly defined), will submit it to the errata coordinator. It won't be the first time I've pointed out errata (one example specifically about DF is at http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ghlight=weasel)

Thanks for pointing that out!
It's not errata. The text for Ally says to apply the Frequency multiplier first, and then apply percentage modifiers to the resulting point cost, and that's what they do in all examples.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:44 AM   #37
Alden Loveshade
 
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Default Re: Snatcher for One

Thanks for everyone's comments. I've read them all and considered them, and I still believe there's an inconsistency in definitions and usage as I explained above. If I'm wrong, it certainly won't be the first time. But if I'm right, that won't be the first time either. So I'm going to write this up and submit it to the errata coordinator.

At the very least, if it's not clear to me, I imagine it's not clear to someone else.
__________________
My first GURPS book, GURPS Fantasy Folk: ?????, is awaiting playtest.
Exchange Students (fantasy/horror/science fiction anthology including my story set in my GURPS galaxy)
Online interview of myself and one of my published GURPS characters
Home page http://alden.loveshade.org
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