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Old 06-22-2018, 08:40 PM   #21
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Capping Attributes for Non-Human Characters

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Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
Then by your argument, why have rules at all? Doesn't every rule get in the way of someone's fun? There has to be a rational limit or your are just playing make believe. If some munchkin thinks his halfling needs a 20 ST then nother he can find a gifferent game to play it in.
Um, the original TFT had no serious maximums on attributes. The proposed limits are a CHANGE from the original. So I don't think its reasonable to imply that anyone who played TFT as written for the last 38 years - i.e., with no attribute maximums - is a "munchkin".

Zot is making a fair point - while imposing maximums on races might be "realistic" (whatever that means in the context of a fantasy RPG), is it necessarily desirable? He posits that it might be more fun to let a figure have no maximums (other than presumably (?) the NEW maximum limit on additional attribute points).

Seems that your argument is something like this - halflings are simply not as strong as humans. Sure, some halflings might be stronger than some humans, but I'd guess that a human of average strength is stronger than 90%+ of halflings. Thus, the argument goes, there should be a limit on halfling ST in TFT and that limit should be lower than the limit for humans. And only munchkins would disagree with this self-evident proposition (just kidding).

However, women are simply not as strong as men. Sure, some women might be stronger than some men, but I'd guess that an adult male of average strength is stronger than 90%+ of adult women.

Are you going to demand that women have a lower maximum ST than men?

Or are you going to shrug and say "it's a game, and intended to be fun" and ignore biology?

If the latter, then I don't think it's ridiculous to do the same for halflings. If the former, well, it was nice knowing you :)

One can hug this realism uber alles stuff too tightly.

Last edited by tbeard1999; 06-22-2018 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 06-22-2018, 11:11 PM   #22
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Capping Attributes for Non-Human Characters

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Um, the original TFT had no serious maximums on attributes. The proposed limits are a CHANGE from the original. So I don't think its reasonable to imply that anyone who played TFT as written for the last 38 years - i.e., with no attribute maximums - is a "munchkin".

Zot is making a fair point - while imposing maximums on races might be "realistic" (whatever that means in the context of a fantasy RPG), is it necessarily desirable? He posits that it might be more fun to let a figure have no maximums (other than presumably (?) the NEW maximum limit on additional attribute points).

Seems that your argument is something like this - halflings are simply not as strong as humans. Sure, some halflings might be stronger than some humans, but I'd guess that a human of average strength is stronger than 90%+ of halflings. Thus, the argument goes, there should be a limit on halfling ST in TFT and that limit should be lower than the limit for humans. And only munchkins would disagree with this self-evident proposition (just kidding).

However, women are simply not as strong as men. Sure, some women might be stronger than some men, but I'd guess that an adult male of average strength is stronger than 90%+ of adult women.

Are you going to demand that women have a lower maximum ST than men?

Or are you going to shrug and say "it's a game, and intended to be fun" and ignore biology?

If the latter, then I don't think it's ridiculous to do the same for halflings. If the former, well, it was nice knowing you :)

One can hug this realism uber alles stuff too tightly.
I can imagine a woman wielding a two handed sword but I can't imagine a Halfling doing the same (actually, I can imagine it, but it looks silly!) My original point was that the character generation method for non-Human PCs didn't really do much to make them unique in terms of attributes. I don't have a problem with a Halfling having a strength beyond that of an average man, but I do think it should be something extraordinary. That's why I decided on the cap. If you want to go beyond the cap, it should require a lot more EP or perhaps magical intervention. I'm not trying to stop your Halflings entering Strongman competitions if that's what you want. Do you really want that? 😜
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Old 06-22-2018, 11:31 PM   #23
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Capping Attributes for Non-Human Characters

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
I can imagine a woman wielding a two handed sword but I can't imagine a Halfling doing the same (actually, I can imagine it, but it looks silly!) My original point was that the character generation method for non-Human PCs didn't really do much to make them unique in terms of attributes. I don't have a problem with a Halfling having a strength beyond that of an average man, but I do think it should be something extraordinary. That's why I decided on the cap. If you want to go beyond the cap, it should require a lot more EP or perhaps magical intervention. I'm not trying to stop your Halflings entering Strongman competitions if that's what you want. Do you really want that? ��
Oh, I wasn't really quibbling with the idea. I was mostly objecting to the notion that playing without maximum attribute limits somehow constituted munchkin play. And pointing out that we make numerous compromises with reality in the name of enjoyment, inclusiveness, etc., without devolving into munchkinism.

Last edited by tbeard1999; 06-23-2018 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:06 AM   #24
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Capping Attributes for Non-Human Characters

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Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
Then you are welcome top house rule your game as far from reality and believability as you wish. But don't whine at the rest of us for suggesting believable caps for races with obvious physical restrictions.
My objection was to calling other peoples' games stupid. It's not about rules at all.
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