Basic Level Talents - A Proposal

[Kirk]

My experience has been that younger and less experienced gamers tend to have superhero creep, which they often think will make for a better game if everyone can do everything.

Putting in more refined levels of talents and such, IMO, starts the mission creep for TFT in general, which has a place as a game that can be spun up reasonably quickly with experienced and novice players, and yet has a excellent combat system and sufficient rules for character development to keep the game interesting and manageable over time.

If someone wants more details, or levels, or whatever, then there are other games that surely have this. I just don't think too much twiddling with TFT will result in a better gaming experience. It stands alone with its strengths and purported weaknesses, and some of these are somewhat of a zero sum game, in the end, and won't respond well to too much tinkering.

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by Kirk

If someone wants more details, or levels, or whatever, then there are other games that surely have this. I just don't think too much twiddling with TFT will result in a better gaming experience. It stands alone with its strengths and purported weaknesses, and some of these are somewhat of a zero sum game, in the end, and won't respond well to too much tinkering.

BEAUTIFULLY STATED KIRK, or perhaps those who want TFT in include all the minutia of detailed, gradient levels, and seemingly unending DX adjustments, and damage modifiers, should invent their own FRPG, and put their money behind it, publish it, and promote it at GAMA.

As I have said so many times before, because of the amorphous nature of the magic inherent in TFT, one can too easily "tweak" the mojo right out of the system, and sadly, with all the best intentions in the world... but the patient named, TFT, will die on the operating table nonetheless.

JK

[JLV]

*shrug* Different strokes for different folks.

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by Skarg

There are already a few master level weapon talents, but what's available is mixed: ...

However there are some weapons that have no expert-level talents:

Pole Weapons

Shield

Ax/Mace ...

And again, I think if you allow extra talents to be bought like attribute points in excess of IQ, I think you'll get less attribute bloat as well as more diverse high-level characters.

Hi Everyone, Skarg.
I've argued before that high attribute heroes are underpowered compared to high attribute wizards. In my campaign, I've fixed this by lowering the memory cost of most talents (but NOT lowering the cost of spells) and making a few, hard to get, high powered talents.

Of all the things that I've tweaked about TFT, adding some really cool, hard to get talents provided the most bang for the buck.

However, Steve Jackson has written that he is not planning to greatly increase the number of talents in the new TFT.

David, in this thread, has suggested that by making some talents come in a basic variety, would greatly increase the variety of characters (since there is more variation in how expert people skills are). By creating an algorithmic system he gets more variety without adding new talents.

Skarg has pointed out that most talents have a basic level, and an expert level, but a handful of talents only come in the 'basic competency' level. (He lists the weapon talents, but there are a few non-weapon talents which also only have one level of competency.)

So I have two questions to the forum readers:

-- ONE: should TFT gain a half dozen talents so that we have basic knowledge and expert ability in every job category? (For example, Guns, could gain Fast Loader which would reduce loading times by 25%.)

-- TWO: Assuming that we would like to do ONE above, what could some of the new 'expert level' talents do?

I'll give some examples in later posts.

***

One final thought, David wrote above he didn't want to spend half memory points for talents. (memory cost, I abbreviate mIQ.) Steve Jackson, in 4th edition GURPS, got rid of half character point skills.

That is great for GURPS, it's a good change! If you typically have 150+ character points to spend on a character (including bonuses for disadvantages), there is no need for half character points.

But in TFT, people typically have 10 or 12 IQ so they have 10 or 12 mIQ to spend on talents and spells. When you have such small number of points to spend, I think that it is quite useful to be able to spend 1/2 of a mIQ to pick up a basic level skill of a 1 point talent.

I also think that languages should cost 1/2 of a mIQ. Many real life people know LOTS of languages, and trying to write them up in TFT is really hard.

Warm regards, Rick.

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by Skarg

...

However there are some weapons that have no expert-level talents:

Pole Weapons

Shield

Ax/Mace ...

Master Shield ... : Gives extra defense from hand weapon attacks through front hexes, a block chance or +1d6 to hit.
...

Hi everyone, Skarg.
Skarg points out that a few talents only come in one level. (Most TFT talents have two.)

From my experience in the SCA (Society of Creative Anachronism) shields are hugely important, in a way that TFT does not capture. I know heavy fighters in the SCA who would get together to practice 'shield work' to try to improve their skill with this defensive weapon.

If we were to add an expert version of Shield what could that talent do? Some suggestions:

-- Give a bonus to Shield Rushes. (Shield rushes are rarely useful in TFT so beefing them up has an attraction. But I think shields deserve a bigger bonus.)

-- Allow them to stop an extra point of damage. (Easy to understand and write.)

-- Allow them to make you harder to hit. Skarg suggests above, that they add a die to the to hit roll, but I would prefer to work with a simple DX modifier. (For example, if you have the talent, "Expert Shield", then melee attacks thru your front hexes when you have a shield ready, are at -2 adj DX.) (This helps capture the importance of a shield, but TFT makes negative adjustments to your opponent fairly rare. Do we want to make this sort of thing much more common?)

Any thing else that an Expert Shield talent could do?

Comments are welcome!

Warm regards, Rick.

[Rick_Smith]

Hi all,
TFT only has one level of Pole Weapon talent, when almost all skills have two talents (thus giving a basic competency level, and an expert level). If we were to add an expert level to Pole Weapons, what could such an expert talent do?

-- Make you better at fighting in pole weapon formations. You would be able to fight in a Greek style phalanx with Sarissa or very long spears with out penalties for having people behind you. (Regular TFT does not penalize pole weapon users for having stuff behind long pole weapon users, but I sure do.)

-- Shorter charge attacks. Steve Jackson has said he will require 3 hex charges to get the double damage bonus. Perhaps expert Pole Weapons talent could allow this with 2 hex charges?

-- Bonus damage.

-- ???


In my campaign the Expert Pole Weapon give the formation bonus. But it comes up so rarely, that I wouldn't mind dumping it for something else, so any debate or suggestions on this topic would be of great interest to me.

Hoping for some comments!

Warm regards, Rick

[Jim Kane]

Rick - Additional dimensions of enhanced weapon skill can manifest within a figure with relatively superior weapon skill as:

• Harder to Hit in General
• Precision in Targeting the Placement of Damage
• Retention of General Accuracy under Adverse Combat Conditions
• Ability to Better Defend Against Multiple Attackers

And there are other possible avenues for us to explore in addition to opportunities for increased damage delivered, which I will leave for other contributors to fill in.

JK