Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-19-2020, 06:25 AM   #21
Agemegos
 
Agemegos's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
Default Re: [Spaceships] Martian “Gas” Station

Checking Wikipedia I see that the atmospheric pressure on Mars is about 0.00628 bar, which means that you would need an envelope 147 times as capacious to contain each ton of hydrogen gas there as you would on Earth near sea level. Envelope area and presumably mass go with the 2/3 power of volume, so about 27.8 times the weight of envelope eating into your load. I don't think airships are plausibly practical where there isn't much air.


There's a point about using hydrogen as a lifting gas that probably belongs in the previous thread. But I don't want to necromantise that, so here. There is a problem with storing and transporting hydrogen gas that, having a very small molecular mass it diffuses rather rapidly. Diffusion going inversely with the square root of molecular mass, losses of hydrogen are 40% more rapid than losses of helium. I don't know how important that would be.
__________________

© copyright Brett Evill
Discussion of FLAT BLACK

Last edited by Agemegos; 09-19-2020 at 06:39 AM.
Agemegos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2020, 10:57 AM   #22
DaltonS
 
DaltonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ont. CANADA
Default Re: [Spaceships] Martian “Gas” Station

Here version 2.1 of the "Gas" Station using RC30 to get power from my "Solar Panel Arrays" on Mars. I parked my new "Mars Rovers" (I'm still tweaking the design so I'll post it later) in the middle section hangar bay and moved my crew and "guest" quarters to the core of that section for maximum radiation protection (yes, that section is already underground but every little bit helps).
Quote:
MARTIAN “GAS” STATION
Code:
TL           Name          dST/dHP  Hnd/SR  HT  Move   LWt.      Load     SM      Occ        dDR     Range    Cost   
9^  Martian “Gas” Station    200       —    13    —   30,000  2,899 [3]  +11  260ASV [4]  0/5/5 [5]    —    $969.5M
Height: 150 yd. (450 ft.) Crush Depth: 0.0 Atmospheres (0 ft.)
Energy Bank: 3 PPh / 540 PPt
Power Profile 'a' Power Points: +1 / -1
Power Profile 'b' Power Points: +⅓ / -⅓
Power Profile 'c' Power Points: +⅓ / -⅓
Power Profile 'd' Power Points: +1⅓ / -0

SHIP SYSTEMS
Code:
 UPPER   
[1-2]    Open Space
           20 Areas / 1 Acre [6]
[3-5†]   Solar Panel Array
           1⅓ Power Points [2,7,d]
[6]      Hangar Bay
           Cap.: 1,000 Tons / SM+7 / Launch: 800 Tons/min [6,10]
Code:
 MIDDLE  
[1]      Stone Armor
           dDR 5 [1,5]
[2]      Fuel Tank
           1,500 Tons of Methane [1]
[3]      Habitat
           one biology lab, two briefing rooms, one chemistry lab, one clinic, ten fabricator microfacs, one geology lab, two gyms, one hot tub, 60 hydroponics bays, one metallurgy lab, 18 offices, five rec rooms, five restaurants, one science! lab, four small swimming pools, 75 tons of steerage cargo, five theatres [1,6]
[4]      Cargo Hold
           1,500 Tons / SM+6 Bay Doors [1]
[5]      Smaller SM Systems
           SM+10 [1]
  [a]    Fuel Tank
           500 Tons of Hydrogen
  [b]    Hangar Bay
           Cap.: 300 Tons / SM+6 / Launch: 400 Tons/min [6,9]
  [c]    Fuel Tank
           500 Tons of Water
[6]      Battery Bank
           3 PPh / 540 PPt / 3 PP [1]
[Core]   Smaller SM Systems
           SM+10 [1]
  [a]    Control Room
           Comp: C7 / Comm/Sensor: 8 / 10 Stations [1,6]
  [b-c]  Habitat
           50 cabins, five luxury cabins [1,6]
           20 bunkrooms, five cells, one ops center, 25 passenger cabins
Code:
 LOWER   
[1!]     Mining
           150 Tons per Hr. [1,6,a]
[2]      Stone Armor
           dDR 5 [1,5]
[3-4]    Fuel Tank
           3,000 Tons of Liquid Oxygen [1,8]
[5]      Smaller SM Systems
           SM+10 [1]
  [a!]   Chemical Refinery
           150 Tons/hr. of Hydrogen [1,6,12,b]
  [b†]   Fission Reactor
           1 Power Point / 50 yr Fuel [1,6,11,b,c]
  [c!]   Chemical Refinery
           650 Tons/hr. of Methane [1,6,13,c]
[6]      Smaller SM Systems
           SM+10 [1]
  [a]    Fuel Tank
           500 Tons of Hydrogen [1]
  [b-c]  Fuel Tank
           1,000 Tons of Liquid Oxygen [1,8]
[Core†]  Fission Reactor
           1 Power Point / 50 yr Fuel [1,6,11,a]
User Notes: This “Gas” station mines ice from a frozen underground aquafer which is turned into hydrogen (for reaction mass or lifting gas) or LOH (for fuel cells or rockets) by different chemical refineries. The hydrogen is also used as feed stock for a third refinery that produces methane (reaction mass) with carbon dioxide in the Martian atmosphere.The oxygen produced as a "byproduct" of getting hydrogen from water is also collected, liquified and sold as a valuable commodity on Mars.
Design Switches, Features, & Notes: 7 Airlocks (Capacity: 7 people each), Fuel Cost: $5,360,000; Auxiliary Craft Cost: $54,692,050; Standard Food Cost: $50,000; Total Cost: $1,029,602,050
IR SIGNATURE: +14 (+4 Energy Bank, +4 Solar Panel, +6 Fission Reactor)
CAMPAIGN OPTIONS: EBS's Unofficial rules
[1] Underground System (Cannot be targeted)
[2] Counts as Exposed System when deployed (see p. SS1:66), Targeted at SM+14
[3] Load includes: 24 tons of Crew & Passengers, 50 tons of Standard Food, (25,000 man-days / 96 days), 25 tons in Steerage Cargo, 1,500 tons in Cargo Hold, 1,300 tons in Hangar Bay
[4] Crew Requirement (190 total): 10 Control Stations (1 Commander, 1 Executive Officer, 1 Operations Officer, 1 Flight Officer, 1 Chief Engineer, 1 Intelligence Officer, 1 Communication Operator,
1 Sensor Operator, 1 Science Officer, 1 Cargo Master), 25 Technicians, 26 Auxiliary Craft Crew, 16 Passenger Care, 34 Entertainment, 1 Medical, 56 Office Workers, 10 Scientists, 12 Gardeners
[5] Semi-Ablative (Loses 1 dDR for every 10 points of d-damage it resists)
SYSTEM NOTES: [6] 3 Workspaces per Full system, 1 per Smaller SM system, [7] Power Points ×0.444 for Stellar Luminosity 1.0 L and Distance 1.5 AU
[8] Volatile System (see p. SS1:62), [9] Optimized for Mars Rover, [10] Optimized for Mars Trans-Orbital Taxi (L)
FUEL USED: [11] Fissionables, [12] Hydrogen (1,000 tons), [13] Methane (1,500 tons)
RADIATION PROTECTION FACTOR (PF): 450/450/900, Non-Mass Shielded PF: 75/150/150 (see p. SS5:41)

AUXILIARY CRAFT
Code:
Qty.              Ship             Location     Cost    Mass  Crew  
   3  Mars Trans-Orbital Taxi (L)  Front     $37.1939M  900   12    
   1  Condor Spaceplane            Front     $8.89M     100   2     
   3  Mars Rover                   Center    $8.6082M   300   12
HABITATS
Code:
Qty.    Location           Type          SM            Notes            
   1   Center [3]  Biology Lab           +0         2 person, +1 Skill
   2   Center [3]  Briefing Rooms        +0                  20 person
   1   Center [3]  Chemistry Lab         +0         2 person, +1 Skill
   1   Center [3]  Clinic                +0  10 bed; 1 staff; +3 Skill
  10   Center [3]  Fabricator Microfacs  +0            $50,000 per Hr.
   1   Center [3]  Geology Lab           +0         2 person, +1 Skill
   2   Center [3]  Gyms                  +0        40 patrons, 4 staff
   1   Center [3]  Hot Tub               +0         10 person, 1 staff
  60   Center [3]  Hydroponics Bays      +0      240 person production
   1   Center [3]  Metallurgy Lab        +0         2 person, +1 Skill
  18   Center [3]  Offices               +0                  36 person
   5   Center [3]  Rec Rooms             +0      100 patrons, 10 staff
   5   Center [3]  Restaurants           +0      100 patrons, 10 staff
   1   Center [3]  Science! Lab          +0         2 person, +1 Skill
   4   Center [3]  Small Swimming Pools  +0         40 person, 4 staff
  15   Center [3]  Steerage Cargo        +0                    75 tons
   5   Center [3]  Theatres              +0      100 patrons, 10 staff
  50  Center [Cb]  Cabins                +0                 100 person
   5  Center [Cb]  Luxury Cabins         +0                  10 person
  20  Center [Cc]  Bunkrooms             +0                  80 person
   5  Center [Cc]  Cells                 +0                  20 person
   1  Center [Cc]  Ops Center            +0        20 person; +1 Skill
  25  Center [Cc]  Passenger Cabins      +0                  50 person
OPEN SPACES
Code:
Acres  Areas  Location  Description  
  1.0    20     Front   Domed Greenhouses
Created using the GURPS Spaceships Design Spreadsheet Version 2.0 RC 30 copyright © 2009-2017 Eric B. Smith. This spreadsheet is based on information contained in the GURPS Spaceships series of books.
You will note power profile "d" (the SPAs) doesn't have a consumption number. That's because its main purpose is to augment the reactors' power load and charge the energy bank so it can run one of the refineries for 9 hours after dark. I also tweaked the habitats a bit. I revised my campaign definition to recognize liquid oxygen as a "new fuel" since it is a major byproduct of getting Hydrogen from water/ice and is very marketable on Mars and to visiting spacecraft by itself. (I calculated the market value as $650/ton but suspect demand would push it higher. By mass alone it would be the major product of the mine.) Tell me what you think.
Dalton “My setting is what it is. Deal with it.” Spence

Last edited by DaltonS; 09-27-2020 at 09:15 AM. Reason: Revised campaign to recognize liquid oxygen as a "new fuel".
DaltonS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2020, 11:56 AM   #23
DaltonS
 
DaltonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ont. CANADA
Default Re: [Spaceships] Martian “Gas” Station

Here is the Mars Rover design I promised previously. This is the general purpose version. I thought about setting up some variants but decided modularizing the cargo holds was enough. Read the internal note for details.
Quote:
MARS ROVER
DRIVING/TL9 (HEAVY WHEELED) Page:
Code:
TL     Name     dST/dHP  Hnd/SR  HT  Move  LWt.    Load    SM     Occ    dDR  Range    Cost    
9^  Mars Rover     30     -1/5   13  6/40   100  43.7 [2]  +6  2ASV [3]   5     —    $2.8134M
Length: 20 yd. (60 ft.) Crush Depth: 37.9 Atmospheres (1,250 ft.)
Power Points: +2⅓ / -3
Energy Bank: 3 PPh / 540 PPt

SHIP SYSTEMS
Code:
 FRONT  
[1]     Metallic Laminate Armor
          dDR 5
[2]     Solar Panel Array
          ⅓ Power Point [1,4]
[3]     Control Room
          Comp: C5 / Comm/Sensor: 4 / 2 Stations
[4-5]   Cargo Hold
          10 Tons / SM+1 Bay Doors
[6]     Habitat
          one garage w/utility truck
Code:
CENTER  
[1]     Metallic Laminate Armor
          dDR 5
[2]     Solar Panel Array
          ⅓ Power Point [1,4]
[3]     Battery Bank
          3 PPh / 540 PPt / 3 PP
[4†]    Fuel Cell
          1 Power Point / 12 hr Fuel [6]
[5]     Engine Room
          1 Control Station / 1 Workspace
[6!!!]  Off-Road Wheeled Drivetrain
          3 Power Points / 4 Wheels
[Core]  Habitat
          one cramped bunkroom, 2.5 tons of steerage cargo
Code:
 REAR   
[1]     Metallic Laminate Armor
          dDR 5
[2]     Solar Panel Array
          ⅓ Power Point [1,4]
[3-6]   Cargo Hold
          20 Tons / SM+2 Bay Doors [5]
[Core]  Cargo Hold
          5 Tons / SM+1 Bay Doors
User Notes: The Mars Rover was designed to be a general purpose long range cargo carrier that could be easily adapted to other roles by replacing the modular cargo holds with other modules. Its Off-Road Wheeled Drivetrain typically uses only 1 PP which during the day is provided by the solar panels (the remaining ⅓ PP is used to recharge the Energy Bank) and after dark by the Energy Bank (for three hours). The Energy Bank can also be used to boost drivetrain performance to 2 PP (4.5 hours in daylight, 1.5 hours after dark) or 3 PP (1.8 hours in daylight, 1 hour after dark). After dark operations are discouraged for this reason. The Fuel Cell is only used in emergencies and then only after the Energy Bank is exhausted.
Design Switches, Features, & Notes: 2 Airlocks (Capacity: 2 people each), Fuel Cost: $1,000; Standard Food Cost: $100; Total Cost: $2,814,500
IR SIGNATURE: +12 (+4 Energy Bank, +4 Fuel Cell, +4 Solar Panel)
CAMPAIGN OPTIONS: EBS's Unofficial rules
[1] Counts as Exposed System when deployed (see p. SS1:66), Targeted at SM+9
[2] Load includes: 0.2 tons of Crew & Passengers, 0.1 tons of Standard Food, (50 man-days / 25 days), 2.4 tons in Steerage Cargo, 35 tons in Cargo Hold, 6 tons in Garage Bay
[3] Crew Requirement: 2 Control Stations (1 Driver, 1 Navigator)
SYSTEM NOTES: [4] Power Points ×0.444 for Stellar Luminosity 1.0 L and Distance 1.5 AU, [5] Modular
FUEL USED: [6] Hydrogen-Oxygen (1.25 tons)
RADIATION PROTECTION FACTOR (PF): 60/120/40, Non-Mass Shielded PF: 20 (see p. SS5:41)

HABITATS
Code:
Qty.   Location            Type           SM             Notes            
   1  Center [C]  Cramped Bunkroom        +0                    2 person
   1   Front [6]  Garage w/Utility Truck  +0  13 person, 0.15 tons cargo
  10  Center [C]  Steerage Cargo          +0                    2.5 tons
Created using the GURPS Spaceships Design Spreadsheet Version 2.0 RC 30 copyright © 2009-2017 Eric B. Smith. This spreadsheet is based on information contained in the GURPS Spaceships series of books.
Dalton “Long haul trucking on Mars?” Spence
DaltonS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mars, spaceships

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.