Traveller and modern electronics

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by Mike Wightman

The Emperor rules absolute.
The Emperor commands fanatical obedience from the IN and IM in Marc's novel. You try work stoppage tactics and you will be replaced at the end of a plasma gun and a new noble appointed in your place.

Assuming that the Emperor cares about - or even notices - your actions. It's a big Imperium.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Mike Wightman

The Emperor rules absolute.
The Emperor commands fanatical obedience from the IN and IM in Marc's novel. You try work stoppage tactics and you will be replaced at the end of a plasma gun and a new noble appointed in your place.

The Emperor commands absolute power intermittently. There is only so much he can order regularly.

Real "absolute" rulers were almost never absolute or anything close to it. Eleven thousand worlds cannot be governed absolutely.

Granted flamboyant things like sign carrying probably are not the most effective tactics. But simple obstructionism is easily enough managed.

And real life emperors seldom command "fanatical" obedience from a multicultural empire and seldom want it. It is enough to have fanatical obedience from their bodyguards and dutiful obedience from the rest of their servants. The Imperium is a stable empire with a balance that can be gamed for centuries, not something ruled by a Kwaitz Haderach.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by malloyd

The biggest information issue in Traveller isn't really one of electronics or even signal delay time, it's an assumption you can lack much more basic stuff that that.

Stuff that you should be able to look up in a hardcopy encyclopedia and decade old copy of the equivalent of the Statesman's Yearbook you bought on the subsector capital a few years ago is treated as if it was information you can't know. Arriving to find the UPP is years out of date, or that your cargo is complete junk because the local industries have started making in export volumes, or leveled up a TL, since the last commercial intelligence you have, or that something ordinary people do all the time is a capital offence against the local majority religion is nonsensical really. The people living on the world one jump away, you know the one you were just on, certainly knew that already, and somebody would been willing to sell you a guidebook.

Fundamentally I think it *is* a source story issue, but it's one still common to science fiction rather than a period artifact. Information is available as if the places you want to know about are 18th century frontiers or barely contacting tribes, because that's the model for a lot of sf, not even like they were even civilized commercial ports in the 18th century, let alone anything more modern or better documented.

From what I remember from history errors are common enough in sociology to justify having tribes you know little about. A scout survey of a world with medieval level technology would have religions, tribes, and even whole empires they never found, taboos that can get a visitor killed that were missed and in general it will take centuries of contact before an Amber can be lifted. The IISS only has so many teams to scout a whole planet and they will get a lot of things wrong.

Imagine, for instance being a trader that visits a planet with a database that tells the local comparison to knowing about Prester John but forgetting about paper money?

There is plenty of room for goof ups no matter how sophisticated the electronics.

It's true wussy mega's who operate like bus schedules and never have to do any more then carry cargo on fixed routes through known areas have less problems. Free Traders get the niches which they don't and have to deal with such things to squeeze a profit.

[Flyndaran]

Businessmen make horrible faux pas all the time when dealing with foreign earth cultures. And we have loads of information to check as well as being exceptionally similar, genetically.
Traveller has loads of not quite humans leading to an extreme version of the expression, "England and America are two nations divided by a common language."
Some, to even quite a bit of, information can lead to more severe mistakes than acknowledging you know nothing and walking on eggshells scrutinizing every action and word. Foreigners are expected to screw up, but if you seem to know the language and culture, then obviously, what you did was completely intentional.

That could be an interesting style. A character that knows the culture and language fluently, but creates the image of the bumbling foreigner to gain advantage and access.

[jason taylor]

What if the first survey team takes the claims of a local despot as to the extensions of his rule at face value, the PCs land to trade and find themselves perplexed that the locals are insulted that anyone would think said despot rules over them?

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Businessmen make horrible faux pas all the time when dealing with foreign earth cultures. And we have loads of information to check as well as being exceptionally similar, genetically.
Traveller has loads of not quite humans leading to an extreme version of the expression, "England and America are two nations divided by a common language."
Some, to even quite a bit of, information can lead to more severe mistakes than acknowledging you know nothing and walking on eggshells scrutinizing every action and word. Foreigners are expected to screw up, but if you seem to know the language and culture, then obviously, what you did was completely intentional.

That could be an interesting style. A character that knows the culture and language fluently, but creates the image of the bumbling foreigner to gain advantage and access.

One Englishman coming to a ranch to do a deal with a local cattleman saw a cowboy and asked, "Where is your master" to receive the reply,"The man ain't been born." If he had said, "boss" of course he would have gotten the reply, "right up there."

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

What if the first survey team takes the claims of a local despot as to the extensions of his rule at face value, the PCs land to trade and find themselves perplexed that the locals are insulted that anyone would think said despot rules over them?

Well, they didn't do their research then. Disputes like this (rebels/pretenders, depending on which side is talking) are hardly rare historically, and they can end in a variety of ways. In general your choices are:

• Deal with neither side. This is the typical default when the situation is unclear, or the other options have unacceptable consequences.
• Deal overtly with the locals, ignoring the despot. This is appropriate when the despot's ability to retaliate is limited or nonexistent.
• Create shell organizations for dealing with the locals, deflecting any rage from the despot to the shell. How well this works depends on everyone's willingness to accept a polite fiction.
• Deal covertly with the locals (smuggling).
• Deal with the despot, then use the despot's agreement to take what you want by main force. This is generally used to give legal cover to theft or conquest (we're not conquering you, we're restoring the rightful government).

In the particular case of the 3I, you also have to deal with what the Imperial position on the issue is. Canon suggests that the 3I is willing to let worlds solve their own internal disputes internally, or even with offworld help, so it may be okay with any of the above options, but then again, it might not be.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Well, they didn't do their research then. Disputes like this (rebels/pretenders, depending on which side is talking) are hardly rare historically, and they can end in a variety of ways. In general your choices are:

• Deal with neither side. This is the typical default when the situation is unclear, or the other options have unacceptable consequences.
• Deal overtly with the locals, ignoring the despot. This is appropriate when the despot's ability to retaliate is limited or nonexistent.
• Create shell organizations for dealing with the locals, deflecting any rage from the despot to the shell. How well this works depends on everyone's willingness to accept a polite fiction.
• Deal covertly with the locals (smuggling).
• Deal with the despot, then use the despot's agreement to take what you want by main force. This is generally used to give legal cover to theft or conquest (we're not conquering you, we're restoring the rightful government).

In the particular case of the 3I, you also have to deal with what the Imperial position on the issue is. Canon suggests that the 3I is willing to let worlds solve their own internal disputes internally, or even with offworld help, so it may be okay with any of the above options, but then again, it might not be.

Actually the IISS doesn't have to be inefficient to do that. They seem to have only so much presence on any given planet they are working on and are very stretched.

But all those choices come AFTER you have survived to figure out what went wrong.

The Imperium's position is mostly as you say. However a planet considered highly vulnerable to offworld influence is likely to get a different consideration.

[warellis]

I apologize for asking this here but what kind of accelerations are ships and missiles and torpedoes capable of in the OTU/GURPS Traveller Universe?

I ask this because I've been reading an ATU set of novels and the protagonist's ship is capable of pushing up to 17 G's of acceleration (as in his ship's inertial dampers can cushion that) and he at one point fires a torpedo that accelerates up to 50 G's:

Within less than a fraction one of the two fifty tonne cylinders dropped from beneath his ship and ignited its powerful drive. Accelerating away from his vessel at a velocity close to fifty gravities, it was like a line of blazing white-fire connected his ship to the powerful torpedo. The flight time could be measured in seconds while the torpedo continued to accelerate towards the target, gaining momentum with minimal attitude changes.

His ship is a 300 ton displacement former military vessel:

The ship was originally designed as a military vessel, the hull adapted from a new generation attack boat design and configured with enough internal spaces that it displaced close to three hundred tonnes, compared to a normal attack boat’s one hundred tonne displacement. Amongst the many additions and features to configure the ship for its current role as a merchant vessel, cabins for passengers were placed along each of the two hull superstructure booms stretching on the outside, forming a W shape with the bridge, engineering and common lounge area in the centre arm. Below in the belly an extended cargo bay had been located to carry his primary means of income out here, and any additional stores needed during his mission.

DIANA’s bridge was built for at least four people in comfortable positions, with the Pilot/Navigator at the front left, a Gunnery Officer position to his right, and space behind for the Sensors and Communications Officers sitting back to back. Several smaller jump seats could be pulled down for anyone else lucky enough to be on the bridge, not that he had anyone else aboard the ship.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by warellis

I apologize for asking this here but what kind of accelerations are ships and missiles and torpedoes capable of in the OTU/GURPS Traveller Universe?

I ask this because I've been reading an ATU set of novels and the protagonist's ship is capable of pushing up to 17 G's of acceleration (as in his ship's inertial dampers can cushion that) and he at one point fires a torpedo that accelerates up to 50 G's:


His ship is a 300 ton displacement former military vessel:

This is _very_ alternate. Canon ships are limited to around 6 Gs by inertial compensation if nothing else (maybe 9 at post-Imperial TLs according to Starships).

Gurps Traveller missiles do 10Gs at most with 50 seen only at post-Imperial TLs again. This is post-Darrian too. Maybe not quite Grandfather's toys but getting there.