Powerstones

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by hal

In any event, $1,000 versus $160 (using quick thinking and not spending the time to determine how much a solitary enchanter with say, 1 assistant should be making to pay for a day's labor...)

I will accept your numbers at face value...however I have a slightly different conclusion.

I would postulate that it is $1000 (gem w/8 pt Manastone) versus $1120 (gem w/8 pt Powerstone) (8x5 vs 8x20).
In which case the cost/benefit ratio is fairly clear.

However
I correct an earlier statement...Manastone is worth it...only if you see no chance of obtaining the Gem(s) required for the reasonable 20 FP Powerstone cast...in that case 20 FP Manastone Pebbles being the only remaining option would be a reasonable choice.

Otherwise given that in many cases where magic is rare and therefore expensive; a mage reasonably handled can earn the money he needs for the gems.

Hell at least in the framework I run in Adventuring Mages are considered a bit cracked. The could make more money (easier and safer too) by just enchanting.

YMMV....

[hal]

When I did my off the cuff analysis for the gemstone cost for manastones plus the cost for energy at $1 per fatigue expended in casting the Quick and Dirty enchantment, I based it off the simple math formula of:

$10*P^2 + $40*P for the gemstone plus $40 to do the 8 x 5 energy required to enchant a 8 Energy (or P) worth of manastones. The result is that for an 8 point stone, you have a starting initial cost of $960 just for the stone itself, until such a time as you actively enchant it.

Now for the fun part. If you keep reusing the stone over and over again, it will always cost $40 to enchant to a level 8 energy state.

After 10 such enchantments, it would have cost you a total of $960 + $400 versus the 10 times on 10 pebbles costing about $160 each, or $1,600 for the overall process.

Sort of like the issue that comes into play with rechargable batteries ;)

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

This even works on Powerstone Quirks. If your stone picks up a Quirk that's just too annoying use Remove Enchantment to get rid of that last point of Powerstone and the quirk that came with it will disappear as well.

I see a couple of potential problems. If each casting of Powerstone is treated as a separate enchantment, then Remove Enchantment will become a very risky proposition on all but the small ones. The energy cost may make using it less worthwhile also.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

I see a couple of potential problems. If each casting of Powerstone is treated as a separate enchantment, then Remove Enchantment will become a very risky proposition on all but the small ones. The energy cost may make using it less worthwhile also.

Sure, Remove Enchantment is also an Enchantment spell and each casting increases the risk of that inevitable critical failure and destruction of the object. You could do sadistic things Quirk-wise when an attempt to Remove a Quirk associated Enchantment has a normal failure too.

However, Kromm's assumption certainly appeared to me to be that you monitored a large and valuable stone for new Quirks and when one appeared you "backed out" only the most recent Enchantment and got rid of the Quirk that accompanied it.

I.e. a Stone Quirks on Enchantment #26. You successfully cast Remove Enchantment and then have an unQuirked stone of Power 25.

[hal]

Which makes me wonder all the more why Quirks were even required for use with GURPS. So I take the time to enchant a powerstone - and it quirks. I then remove enchantment on a quirk, and go back to a clean stone again, after which, I begin anew the process of enchanting the powerstone "cleanly" to a higher power level. That implies that quirked powerstones shouldn't really be on the market - but that's just me.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by hal

Which makes me wonder all the more why Quirks were even required for use with GURPS. So I take the time to enchant a powerstone - and it quirks. I then remove enchantment on a quirk, and go back to a clean stone again, after which, I begin anew the process of enchanting the powerstone "cleanly" to a higher power level. That implies that quirked powerstones shouldn't really be on the market - but that's just me.

Or that the powerstone cost chart should be adjusted, particularly for large stones.

Instead of calculating how many stones you would blow up AND quirk before you get that 0-quirk 50pt Powerstone...it should just be the blown up crit fails that should be added...for any quirks just add in the cost of a 100 energy Remove Enchantment and the cost of recasting the Powerstone.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I.e. a Stone Quirks on Enchantment #26. You successfully cast Remove Enchantment and then have an unQuirked stone of Power 25.

Although if you're good enough to pull that off given the -78 penalty (- 75 for the -3 for each of the other 25 enchantments on the stone, -3 for not knowning the Powerstone with this specific Quirk spell variant) that's not unfair. After all you could've spent those 300 points or so on 100 points of Extra Fatigue instead of buying your Remove Enchantment spell up to 90.

[hal]

Originally Posted by Witchking

Or that the powerstone cost chart should be adjusted, particularly for large stones.

Instead of calculating how many stones you would blow up AND quirk before you get that 0-quirk 50pt Powerstone...it should just be the blown up crit fails that should be added...for any quirks just add in the cost of a 100 energy Remove Enchantment and the cost of recasting the Powerstone.

Much as I hate to say this, I have this "sinking feeling", that when you quirk a stone, it quirks ALL of the powerstone enchantments, not just that last one. Just as, if I recall Kromm's original statement regarding crit successes raising the power of a powerstone - ALL of it, so too would the quirk affect all of the preceeding powerstone enchantments. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.

See, when I mentioned it once before, the question I asked was "What effect does a crit success have on a powerstone enchantment" (if I recall correctly), and that is why I recall the fact that it was suggested that it raises the power level of the entire powerstone. Otherwise, how do you describe a powerstone with the first 8 powerstone enchantments at power level 15, the next 12 at power 17, and the last 5 at power 20? In a low mana region, would only the last five powerstone enchantments count?

<sigh>

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Although if you're good enough to pull that off given the -78 penalty (- 75 for the -3 for each of the other 25 enchantments on the stone, -3 for not knowning the Powerstone with this specific Quirk spell variant) that's not unfair. After all you could've spent those 300 points or so on 100 points of Extra Fatigue instead of buying your Remove Enchantment spell up to 90.

Good catch.

I think you can avoid the -3 for the "particular Quirk" variant. There's only one Powerstone spell. The other -75 stays though.

I think we can write off ths particular effect on Powerstones as long as the assumption is the "each pt of the Powerstone counts as a separate Enchantment" interpretation is in effect. You won't even be able to completely de-Enchant a high powered stone to get rid of a horrible Quirk.

If the on the other hand we go for something like the "this spell may be re-cast at a higher level" similar to Accuracy you could at least get rid of all the Enchantment if you've got a really terrible Quirk on a valuable gemstone.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by hal

Otherwise, how do you describe a powerstone with the first 8 powerstone enchantments at power level 15, the next 12 at power 17, and the last 5 at power 20? In a low mana region, would only the last five powerstone enchantments count?

<sigh>

YMMV but my interpretation is...caster skill level doesn't matter for the question of "functionality" in various mana zones. After all that is covered specifically in the text of the spell itself. Powerstones work in a low mana zone, the recharge rate is what is effected.

Magic p. 69
A Powerstone “recharges” itself after use, by absorbing mana from the surrounding area. The rate of recharge varies with the area’s mana level.

Local Mana Recharge Rate
None None
Low 1 point/week
Normal 1 point/day
High 1 point/12 hours
Very High 1 point/6 hours

If they had wanted it to be only skill 20+ Powerstones work in low mana they would have said it there...and I guess they would recharge "normally"; to my reading they went a different way.

I guess the skill level matters for contest of skill/resistance rolls but other than that...not so much.

As always IMHO.