Powerstones

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by hal

Which then implies, that the use of the Charge Powerstone spell, is not going to come under the heading of "and the subject is in danger", and consequently, will not affect the roll to avoid quirking or destroying your powerstone.

I dispute this. If you are in an adventuring situation where there is the ongoing possibility of danger via ambush, wandering monsters ect, i.e. any situation where the party would feel obligated to maintain a standing watch, then the caster is in danger and if that danger is potentially life-threatening, I'd say it's serious danger.

Yes, that means soldiers on active duty in a 'war zone' are in serious danger most of the time. That would definately be true for wandering adventurers.

Ergo, the bless spell language would apply.

-Polaris

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by hal

In re-reading what you wrote, are you saying that if you cast the spell while in a dungeon, but in no immediate danger at that precise moment from the spell's crit failure, that you expect the bless to kick in? If so, then I'd have to wonder what the danger of the spell itself presents to your character at that precise moment for the bless to kick in. As GM, I'd say "um, no danger to you at this precise moment, so no bless kicking in."

I'd reply, "That's not what the spell description says. If we have to keep watch, then I am in danger, ergo it applies."

Sorry hal, but IMHO you are reading a restriction/language into the bless spell that simply isn't there. There is nothing in the bless spell that specifices IMMEDIATE danger. That's your invention.

-Polaris

[hal]

Originally Posted by Polaris

I'd reply, "That's not what the spell description says. If we have to keep watch, then I am in danger, ergo it applies."

Sorry hal, but IMHO you are reading a restriction/language into the bless spell that simply isn't there. There is nothing in the bless spell that specifices IMMEDIATE danger. That's your invention.

-Polaris

Perhaps you have a valid reason to disagree, but...

The bless affects what...

A roll.

When is the roll made?

At the moment it is required - which, is for one action, one second's worth of action in some cases, or perhaps an action that is quantifiable enough for it to be treated as one roll.

A roll to spot something that is 5 miles away, and will eventually KILL your character in another 3 hours is not what I'd call a moment of danger for which Bless will apply. While it is one roll, its failure does not place your character in immediate (ie right that very moment) danger.

A roll to avert the demon's hand from clutching your throat and killing your character - likely would qualify, especially if it is a crit success for a grapple for your throat made by the demon. THAT would be immediate danger.

Otherwise? Any event can be construed as being "in danger if the failure can be construed as leading up to the final event that will result in the character's death." Thus, noticing the dog that wanders into your household, that will eventually be used to kill your character 3 years hence can be construed as "in danger"?

So, to reiterate our differences - you claim that while in any "dangerous environment", any failed roll will be rectified by the bless spell, and causing the bless spell to expire. In theory then <evil grin>, the loss of the Blessing can be construed as more dangerous than that precise moment, and create a paradox, causing the Bless spell to fail entirely. ;)

My point of view is that the Bless roll only applies to the precise moment in which a roll was made by the opponent (crit success) that is dangerous to your character's life, or your character fails a roll (crit failure) that is dangerous to your character's life. Normal success rolls and/or failure rolls might be negated by the blessing if it falls outside of the modifier granted by the bless itself (ie +1, +2, +3).

I can live with that. If your GM rules his game world in that fashion, I'm not going to argue the point. I am guilty of running my own "variations" of the rules as written, so I can't be one to cast the first stone against your GM ;)

For instance? In my campaign world, the convention regarding the luck skill is thus:

If you take luck, you get three rerolls before your luck runs out and needs to recharge for 1 hour of game table time. Not all three rerolls have to be used for the same thing. For example, you can use your luck at 12:02 PM to dodge an incoming attack, then use your luck reroll at 12:42 for a reaction roll re-roll, then at 2:30 for a gambling re-roll, before the luck needs to recharge for an hour. This is DEFINITELY not rules as written ;)

[Langy]

If you are in an adventuring situation where there is the ongoing possibility of danger via ambush, wandering monsters ect, i.e. any situation where the party would feel obligated to maintain a standing watch, then the caster is in danger and if that danger is potentially life-threatening, I'd say it's serious danger.

That is not what 'in danger' means in the English language.

'In danger' and 'thinking you are in danger' are two completely different things. Do not confuse the two. Similarly, 'in danger' and 'the possibility of danger' are not the same.

[benz72]

Originally Posted by Polaris

Hal,

I'll agree that if you aren't in danger at all (safe at home), then indeed bless would not negate a critical failure. However, if you were in an environment where there was always a level of possibly immediate danger (like most dungeon crawls), I'd say a strict reading of bless indicates that it does. The spell doesn't say the recipient has to be in immediate danger, only in danger.

Naturally this is subject to GM interpretation, but almost all that I've had experience with rule that in an "adventuring" situation (i.e. not safe at home or in an inn or inside lots or protection), bless certainly does negate criticals against you....at the cost of the bless itself.

-Polaris

Would you accept then that critical failures on cooking, hiking, navigation, merchant, lockpicking and other rolls while adventuring negate the blessing as well even though they do not place you in immediate danger? That seems odd to me and if it were my game "serious danger" would mean that failing this roll is going to cause a sever loss of HP (probably more than 1/2 of what the blessed character had left if I had to set a specific threshold for the sake of consistency).

[Bending Arms]

This is from a low point mage 125-150 cp

Playing a mage and and run out of FP in my powerstone Im not wasting FP to to recharge a powerstone in a bad situation. Even if the skill is high enough to negate some of the cost its still not best time in the middle of place I could die to cast unwanted spells.

Its like running out of ammo, and grenades, then looking at your knife thinking how screwed you are.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Polaris

Fred,

All this is false many times over. Luck can be used once per real-time hour (or half hour or ten minutes for higher level luck). I don't know where you are getting your "once per day" from, but it's not the rules.

Also I suggest you reread the bless spell. It DOES negate critical failures at the expense of negating the bless spell itself.

The rules I am looking at are on p.108 of _Gurps Powers_. That's where I am getting the option of making Luck work by character time rather than player time. Please go and Read That Fine Manual.

Point 2 is that Bless will save (or at least lessen the effect) for _you_. It will not negate the die roll for the Crit Fail and it will especially not save your stone.

As an example, take a Cooking roll to properly prepare Fugu. If you roll a natural 18 you have not successfully removed the poisonous glands of the pufferfish no matter how Bless you have.

However, if you have a 1 pt Bless in effect the GM could rule that you don't swallow a large enough dose to get the full lethal effect but only get sick instead.

With a 2 pt Bless you'd spill your portion of Fugu and not get poisoned at all. Everybody else would probalby have to fend for themselves though.

With a 3 pt Bless you'd probably spill the whole thing and no one risks poisoning. Of course the Bless spell ends in all cases, but in no case does the damger casing die roll just "go away" much less get modified into a success.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by hal

Frankly? That is one spell that should have been revised from the bad old days of GURPS GRIMOIRE and made to be strictly useful as is, and remove the possibility of quirking or destroying a powerstone with a crit failure. If the spell is too useful as written, then make it less useful by having the spell cost more energy.

Agreed... I've said as much before, elsewhere. Just because Charge Powerstone made it into Magic does not mean that it belongs in every game.

It's a little strange being on the same side of this argument with you... NOI :)

[hal]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

It's a little strange being on the same side of this argument with you... NOI :)

I'll try not to let it go to my head <droll grin and a teasing look to boot>

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by benz72

Would you accept then that critical failures on cooking, hiking, navigation, merchant, lockpicking and other rolls while adventuring negate the blessing as well even though they do not place you in immediate danger? That seems odd to me and if it were my game "serious danger" would mean that failing this roll is going to cause a sever loss of HP (probably more than 1/2 of what the blessed character had left if I had to set a specific threshold for the sake of consistency).

Yes, because that's what the spell says. If you fail a roll while you are in serious danger, the bless negates the failure and terminates.

You and others may disagree that this was the intent and may run it differently in your own games, but those are the written rules.

Fred, you are working with a rules varient otherwise known as an option.

Rules as written, Luck applies each realtime hour. Period.

-Polaris