[TG] Innate Attack Enchancement: Inflicts CPs?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by chandley

I see where you are coming from. Given you really want Link +10% for this, and so are paying 1 point for it on the arm and at most 1 point on the striker (depending on how many optional limitations you give it)... 2 points to hurt and grapple at full Arm ST seems okay. So go with your link build I think.

2 points seems too cheap, actually. Judging from Bite, this is probably a 4-5 point ability.

Originally Posted by chandley

I'll admit to never considering that as an option, which is not the same as saying you are wrong. In that interpretation of Weapon Mount, "Grapple" as the weapon might be okay... but I'd probably disallow it as a GM. I feel that I want more arm like behavior from something that can actually grab people and move them around than Weapon Mount seems to provide.

Striking ST has a One Attack Only limitation, which is -60%. Extra Arm (One Attack Only: Grappling -60%) seems fair.

[Icelander]

Noting that Extra Arm (One Attack Only: Grapple -60%, Link +10%) is [5], the same as Extra Mouth, and that a Striker, Limb with Link is actually lower cost than a normal Striker, I think it's probably balanced to add variety of Striker which is entitled Grabbing Striker and adds +5 points to the base point cost of Striker and allows it to strike and grapple during the same action. Much cleaner all around.

As for the CP it should do, I'm not sure. Bite does thr-1 CP based on full ST. Maybe, since it's a Striker, give it a +1/die to CP for leverage, but base Grip ST on Arm (x0.5) unless the character buys higher Grip ST for his Striker?

Or I guess it could allow a selection, per turn, between a strike at thr (+1/die), a grapple at thr (+1/die) or a grapple+strike which did only thr damage and inflicted thr CP.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Noting that Extra Arm (One Attack Only: Grapple -60%, Link +10%) is [5], the same as Extra Mouth, and that a Striker, Limb with Link is actually lower cost than a normal Striker, I think it's probably balanced to add variety of Striker which is entitled Grabbing Striker and adds +5 points to the base point cost of Striker and allows it to strike and grapple during the same action. Much cleaner all around.

As for the CP it should do, I'm not sure. Bite does thr-1 CP based on full ST. Maybe, since it's a Striker, give it a +1/die to CP for leverage, but base Grip ST on Arm (x0.5) unless the character buys higher Grip ST for his Striker?

This post confirms being able to pay to make 1 arm get full ST for grapples.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

This post confirms being able to pay to make 1 arm get full ST for grapples.

Based on this, I'd say that adding +5 to the base cost of your Striker is fair enough for it to count as a one-armed grapple and adding +10 to the base cost would allow it to count as a two-armed grapple, like a big fighting claw.

Now I'm just trying to figure out if I should allow grapple and damage at full effect simultaneously. Are pincers used to deliberately make slashing attacks which are more capable of tearing through DR and flesh while not grabbing hold of it or is not grabbing hold simply a failed or low CP grapple?

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Based on this, I'd say that adding +5 to the base cost of your Striker is fair enough for it to count as a one-armed grapple and adding +10 to the base cost would allow it to count as a two-armed grapple, like a big fighting claw.

Now I'm just trying to figure out if I should allow grapple and damage at full effect simultaneously. Are pincers used to deliberately make slashing attacks which are more capable of tearing through DR and flesh while not grabbing hold of it or is not grabbing hold simply a failed or low CP grapple?

Generally, pincers grab first, then crush/cut their way through victims. Sometimes they have a pointy bit on the end that can be used as a slashing attack, but such a use disallows grappling on that turn entirely.

[chandley]

And as a follow up to Nereidalbels link, Long is definitely the wrong way to add SM to an arm, if all you want that SM for is for grappling. I co-opted Born Biter to Strikers as a leveled perk: +1 SM and +1 to target the Striker, Doubles effective weight of the striker for parrying and breaking weapons. 1 point per level.

A "Big Arm" perk would work pretty much identically for an arm. Mostly, this doesnt add reach or swing damage, it just makes it a bigger arm. Personally, I buy Stretching to add reach but not swing damage. I really dislike Long in general though.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Generally, pincers grab first, then crush/cut their way through victims. Sometimes they have a pointy bit on the end that can be used as a slashing attack, but such a use disallows grappling on that turn entirely.

Grabbing probably ought to do damage, ought it not? If Hooking with a sharp hook on a weapon does, then grabbing someone with a sharp pincer does too.

But it might not be as much damage as when using the pincer exclusively to do damage.

It seems fair to me that just as Bite does less damage and CP than a normal grapple, a Grabbing Pincer should do only thr damage and thr CP when inflicting them simultaneously. After a grab, the character can choose to continue to build CPs while continuing to do damage or he can focus on just doing damage, without improving the grapple, for a +1/die as is normal for a Striker.

Such a Grabbing Pincer would follow the standard rules for Bites in that it uses the normal hit location penalty, not the grappling hit locations, as well as using the SM based restrictions on target selection. A levelled Perk called something like Large Pincer would add SM to the Striker for that purpose and that purpose alone (as well as for Bear Hug).

As a freebie, Bear Hug damage would be Cutting for a Cutting Pincer.

I'd only allow them in Crushing or Cutting versions.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I'd only allow them in Crushing or Cutting versions.

Indeed, you grapple with an impaling striker by using the rules for picks :)

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Based on this, I'd say that adding +5 to the base cost of your Striker is fair enough for it to count as a one-armed grapple and adding +10 to the base cost would allow it to count as a two-armed grapple, like a big fighting claw.

Now I'm just trying to figure out if I should allow grapple and damage at full effect simultaneously. Are pincers used to deliberately make slashing attacks which are more capable of tearing through DR and flesh while not grabbing hold of it or is not grabbing hold simply a failed or low CP grapple?

I could live with that option. I think your pricing is fair and it is simple which I like.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I could live with that option. I think your pricing is fair and it is simple which I like.

Would you allow full damage and full CP at the same time or would you reduce damage and CP down to thr, instead of thr(+1/die)?