Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2019, 06:46 AM   #101
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Sol-1 [Infinite Worlds]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astromancer View Post
The Vietnam War was less than a blip on either America's or Europe's radar. And the switch back to pushing land reform over aiding strongmen made for a less brutal world.
This is quite a major change though. If the Americans actually figure this out completely and start promoting land reform I think it kills Communism as a global threat. People in third world countries would be just as happy, indeed probably happier, to support democratic revolutionaries as communist ones. It's just that the democracies aren't willing to support to efforts to throw out the oppressive landholding aristocrat scum and the communists are. Of course you can't do this without effectively supporting revolutions - there is a reason nobody tried it in Vietnam until it was too late, and frankly I think it would prevent accepting American aid in this case - no existing government is going to implement land reform because they wouldn't be the government if those aristocratic scum weren't supporting them. You can't break the power of one without breaking the other.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2019, 07:13 AM   #102
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Sol-1 [Infinite Worlds]

Without Communism being a threat in the 1960s, I do not see much initial support for the space program, at least not enough to support an Apollo mission. Without an Apollo mission, you do not really have to science for the lunar mines and L4/L5 colonies required to assemble and deploy an orbital solar array. Without an orbital solar array, you end up with our level of space infrastructure or worse, as there is no evidence that going into space is economically worthwhile beyond autonomous satellites.

One of the interesting consequences of a stronger union presence in American politics (which is a given without Reagan) is solid opposition against automation and outsourcing jobs. American companies that did either could find their liability protection revoked (a rarely used option right now), as corporations were supposed to serve the common good in exchange for limited liability, which would open up their shareholders to financial liability. In such a economic and legal framework, American companies would likely find themselves protected from competition through tariffs because they are seen to serve the common good, rather than because they serve themselves.

What would be the result? No free trade deals between the USA and other nations, so no NAFTA, no massive increase in trade with China and India, etc. Even as the orbital solar array opened up new jobs for Americans, and expanded the economy 25% beyond OTL, the ATL economy would be much stronger. Just keeping with the same ratio of medium household income to average household income of 1977, the medium household income would be 50% greater without the 25% increase from the space economy. With it, you are talking about medium household incomes being over 80% greater than OTL.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2019, 07:51 AM   #103
Varyon
On Notice
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Sol-1 [Infinite Worlds]

I would expect reduced automation to result in reduced technological growth. First off, you'd obviously lack the growth that results simply from research to allow for increased automation. Secondly, with plentiful labor jobs, there's less draw toward extended education, so there are fewer people with degrees working on research and development (although your Democrat-paradise world might have sufficiently low tuition to somewhat combat this). Higher union influence is almost certainly going to result in higher mafia influence, and when things are going good for the mafia they're going to be pretty resistant to change. Reduced automation is also going to make space operations much more costly, as you're likely to have more errors and you need to bring far more with you, since you need to support more humans to do the work automation would eliminate/reduce in OTL.

Granted, none of this is necessarily a deal breaker given the setting (where rather improbable things happen anyway).
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2019, 07:58 AM   #104
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Sol-1 [Infinite Worlds]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Without Communism being a threat in the 1960s, I do not see much initial support for the space program, at least not enough to support an Apollo mission. Without an Apollo mission, you do not really have to science for the lunar mines and L4/L5 colonies required to assemble and deploy an orbital solar array. Without an orbital solar array, you end up with our level of space infrastructure or worse, as there is no evidence that going into space is economically worthwhile beyond autonomous satellites.

One of the interesting consequences of a stronger union presence in American politics (which is a given without Reagan) is solid opposition against automation and outsourcing jobs. American companies that did either could find their liability protection revoked (a rarely used option right now), as corporations were supposed to serve the common good in exchange for limited liability, which would open up their shareholders to financial liability. In such a economic and legal framework, American companies would likely find themselves protected from competition through tariffs because they are seen to serve the common good, rather than because they serve themselves.

What would be the result? No free trade deals between the USA and other nations, so no NAFTA, no massive increase in trade with China and India, etc. Even as the orbital solar array opened up new jobs for Americans, and expanded the economy 25% beyond OTL, the ATL economy would be much stronger. Just keeping with the same ratio of medium household income to average household income of 1977, the medium household income would be 50% greater without the 25% increase from the space economy. With it, you are talking about medium household incomes being over 80% greater than OTL.
So a richer more insular United States and a poorer everywhere else. Canada for example would have no part of the space pie and a declining export market for both minerals and energy, and not enough of a domestic market to support its own manufacturing concerns.
David Johnston2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.