Does a character's weapon count towards range for feinting?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by hal

So - you're free to judge/rule as you see fit. But if you want to have some fun? Search YouTube for videos on sword play and watch them closely. The sword of a defender (unless all he has is a sword, no shield!) won't always be in the front of the the fighter, but closer to the flank or side or even the rear of the defender.

It seems like this all isn't really about feinting, but rather about removing or altering the weapon reach rules to do with attacking weapons.

[tbone]

In the far-flung future, it'd be good for GURPS 5e* to clarify some points of weapon Reach that 4e leaves unclear. Effective Reach for a feint is one; effective Reach for a parry is another. Stuff that's easy enough to rule on as GM, but it'd be good to have official answers in the text.

*To be an online, roll-your-own-rules, full-VR system with AI GM. And in the year it launches, we'll be flying atomic cars around crystal spires. Or Mad Max buggies through a skull-littered wasteland. One of those two.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by tbone

And in the year it launches, we'll be flying atomic cars around crystal spires. Or Mad Max buggies through a skull-littered wasteland. One of those two.

Kitchen-sink both settings together, and fly the last of the atomic-powered Interceptors through broken-crystal-spire-littered wastelands, pursued by packs of feral children fighting for their next mana recharge from your buggy.

[Grayscale]

Originally Posted by tbone

*To be an online, roll-your-own-rules, full-VR system with AI GM. And in the year it launches, we'll be flying atomic cars around crystal spires. Or Mad Max buggies through a skull-littered wasteland. One of those two.

That's precisely when I'd like a new GURPS version to launch! (no sarcasm)

[tbone]

Originally Posted by Exallted

That's precisely when I'd like a new GURPS version to launch! (no sarcasm)

Gotta admit, there's very little about the current version that screams for a 5e. It's really very good.

I, too, can wait for the crystal spire cities / feral skull mutants.

[Tomsdad]

I'd allow it so long as the follow up attack was specially engaging the opponent's weapon, e.g disarm or a beat. I'd allow you to feint into a beat beauce in my mind they are different enough in execution even if the result is the same in terms of rules results (penalty to defence)

Originally Posted by hal

Having experience with real life fencing and GURPS game mechanics, I'd suggest that you go with Boge's suggestion. Why? Most of the beats, binds, and disarms require the strength of your blade interacting with the middle or strength of his blade. In order of hilt to tip:

Pommel
Hand grip
Cross Guard
Forte
Terso
Foible
Tip

The tip is just that, the tip of the weapon. The Foible is the weakest portion of the blade overall. In my experience with fencing, most blades broke in the foible section of the blade, not the middle or forte.

In addition? Ever watch someone use a waster? That's a wooden practice sword. Someone armed with sword and shield is't going to advance with their sword arm exposed and their weapon in front of their shield. They will have their shield (usually!) in front facing the enemy, and their sword arm cocked and at the ready to swing a blow when the opportunity presents itself.

All sorts of strange things can happen in a mock combat, including a man who once broke his wrist as he aborted a slashing attack against his opponent once he realized that the opponent's safety gear wasn't as it should be. I've seen attacks aimed at the torso get drawn into the defender's leg all because his circle parry was too large in diameter (ie poorly executed). I've seen feints where the person failed to make a credible move, and I simply out waited my opponent and letting him make the first move. My fencing master would constantly tell us "the bulk of your touches should be parry/ripostes.

So - you're free to judge/rule as you see fit. But if you want to have some fun? Search YouTube for videos on sword play and watch them closely. The sword of a defender (unless all he has is a sword, no shield!) won't always be in the front of the the fighter, but closer to the flank or side or even the rear of the defender.

Oddly my experience with fencing etc is what makes me allow it! Being able to feint to the opponent's blade and getting them to react to that was always a thing IME.


I take your point about what parts of your blade you engage what parts of your opponent's blade with (that said strong to weak is a thing). But that's probably below the resolution of GURPS weapon reach, especially as different weapon types would intrinsically differ in this!

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Oddly my experience with fencing etc is what makes me allow it! Being able to feint to the opponent's blade and getting them to react to that was always a thing IME.

Do note that fencing is not quite the same as sword fighting, unless you are fighting with lightsabers (a tap is a win) that deactivate the moment you are hit (a tap is a win even if your opponent taps you a fraction of a second later). To say nothing of the safety and sportsmanship rules. A swordsman doesn't get to reattach a severed hand because it is an invalid target.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Do note that fencing is not quite the same as sword fighting, unless you are fighting with lightsabers (a tap is a win) that deactivate the moment you are hit (a tap is a win even if your opponent taps you a fraction of a second later). To say nothing of the safety and sportsmanship rules.

No I know (and not all sword fighting I've done is with a foil), but I was talking about feinting to, beating and generally about engaging the blade not pushing the tip of your blade through your opponent ;-)!

And even in sports fencing the success of that is not so much measured by just making a contact for long enough to get the lights to go on.

i.e you are not relying on just making a light contact on a beat to your opponent's blade, you have to actually beat the blade or feint to it etc

Originally Posted by RyanW

A swordsman doesn't get to reattach a severed hand because it is an invalid target.

Very true, and while I've never seen severed body parts on the piste ;-0, being an invalid target doesn't stop it from hurting when you get caught in error at full speed!