Does Danger Sense allow Dodge against back attacks?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Optimal behavior on the battle mat is 'avoid situations where PV would be useful'; if you need PV, you (or your teammates) have almost certainly already made a mistake. The exception to this is a solitary combatant, but in general being alone in a multiplayer game is a mistake too.

Redundant systems that protect from harm are a valid design. Everyone makes mistakes (or the other side, who also has plans, is able to successfully maneuver you into an imperfect position). And people become casualties, leaving fewer and fewer people to cover the same range of possible threats.

Good preparation and execution can minimize the time you need either Danger Sense or Peripheral Vision. But expecting good preparation and execution to translate into 100% success at all times, with no possibility of being put into a sub-optimal situation, is in itself not good tactics or character design.

Before spending character points on raising Active Defences from 20 to 22, I'd certainly prefer to take Advantages that ensure that I'd be able to roll against them even in a situation where I could not ensure optimum positioning for my forces.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Redundant systems that protect from harm are a valid design.

Depends how much you're paying for them. It's certainly worth something, but is it worth 15 points?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Depends how much you're paying for them. It's certainly worth something, but is it worth 15 points?

Danger Sense (especially the way I run it) is, but PV? I don't think so.

Heck... I can't even think of a single Character I've ever seen it on in my almost 30 years of Playing GURPS.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Danger Sense (especially the way I run it) is, but PV? I don't think so.

Heck... I can't even think of a single Character I've ever seen it on in my almost 30 years of Playing GURPS.

It's sometimes on racial templates as a tax.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Depends how much you're paying for them. It's certainly worth something, but is it worth 15 points?

The more points you have in combat traits, the more valuable it generally is. At a certain skill level, intelligent foes will stop expecting frontal attacks to work and concentrate on trying to ambush or flank the guy with the awesome Parry. And with scaled challenges, foes will often have mobility, stealth or magic that makes this a real threat.
So even if characters don't start with it, it makes sense as a 'higher-level' trait for characters with really high weapon skill.

[Black Leviathan]

I swear I remember Danger Sense not providing specific information about the nature of the attack. It could be my 3rd edition brain but I don't think you have enough data to dodge an attack based on Danger Sense. I'd allow a dead-drop dodge with that -2 for knowing blind dodge but Danger sense doesn't give you the ability to discern the angle or altitude a blow is coming in at.

[pierseb]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

I swear I remember Danger Sense not providing specific information about the nature of the attack. It could be my 3rd edition brain but I don't think you have enough data to dodge an attack based on Danger Sense. I'd allow a dead-drop dodge with that -2 for knowing blind dodge but Danger sense doesn't give you the ability to discern the angle or altitude a blow is coming in at.

I think you are right. I believe the main point of Danger Sense is that, if successful, you do not suffer from the surprise attack effects - mental stun and Do Nothing maneuver.
You get an action, chose a maneuver, but you might not be able to perceive the attack if not facing it. I guess this is where PV and Blind Fighting can be useful.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

I swear I remember Danger Sense not providing specific information about the nature of the attack.

It doesn't. It gives you 'enough of a warning that you can take action'. That's pretty useless unless it either tells you what action to take, or lets you take an active defense.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

I swear I remember Danger Sense not providing specific information about the nature of the attack.

Right. So parrying is right out, and blocking unlikely. But dodging can be done successfully just by moving from where you are, and should be allowed, IMO.

The cinematic examplar of DS is Spiderman's Spider Sense, and dodging stuff he would normally be surprised by is the main use.

[evileeyore]

And note, this is DFRPG where munchkinism is king and cinematic rules the day.

Hence why I stopped caring about Danger Sense being a little bit "op"... since it only really aids in a rare few moments where the PCs are surprised or unable to otherwise perceive an attack.

Those instances tend to be pretty rare.


though thinking about it... I might disallow non-Dodge defenses against attacks they actually have no way of perceiving, for instance, invisible attackers.