12-04-2017, 09:33 AM | #41 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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12-04-2017, 09:40 AM | #42 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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12-04-2017, 09:42 AM | #43 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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The fact that they are called "machines" in a different context, for a different type of discussion, simply isn't relevant. Treating the two senses of the word as if they were interchangeable is an example of the fallacy of equivocation.
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
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12-04-2017, 09:44 AM | #44 |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
if you mean the generated force via technology "that could be used directly by a machine" they yes, if the technology can generation a force the can lift an object by pushing it up a slope, or split object by driving the wedge, or pull in a pully, or turn a screw, they a sailboat , the it's a man made object that prove the motive force to move an Object from Point A to Point B over coming the friction force of water by hanging thew natural energy of the wind, redirecting it into a useful direction to do useful work
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12-04-2017, 09:56 AM | #45 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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To go back to ships. Weather or not ship's count for the spell, there does seem to be two different senses of the word machine here. |
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12-04-2017, 10:02 AM | #46 | |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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I'm Not saying they're their and there are the same thing because of equivalent pronunciation i'm saying the making saying an apple and not an orange is a distraction when you only care that theire fruit, the the further subdivision isn't relevant to the point Were' talking bout equivocating over the word of spell when the wording in the case in country to it's obvious intent when we talking about a book the university acknowledged to have been poorly adapting to edition. I'm saying the entire of the reason is you can't using a waterfall any more you must use a water wheel, you can't Use the Win you must use technology the harness the power of the wind to use useful work. a sailboat does so. I find it absurd to Ignore the point of spell and allow the less efficient technology of windmill driven paddle boat to be used with the spell and denigh the more efficient technology of a sailboat. Last edited by roguebfl; 12-04-2017 at 10:14 AM. |
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12-04-2017, 10:15 AM | #47 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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What "machine" means for the purposes of Draw Power is made clear by the way the spell is described, and by the statements at the start of the chapter, and to some degree by the spell's relationship to other spells. The fact that other things can be called "machines" for other purposes isn't relevant if they don't have the features the spell assumes.
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
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12-04-2017, 10:17 AM | #48 | |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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12-04-2017, 10:24 AM | #49 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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There is a power source, that takes energy from one place and converts it into a different form. There is a mechanism, that takes the new form of energy and uses it to do work. There is a system on which work is done. So, for example: Electrical generator provides electric current. Electric current flows through power line to resistance heater. Heater heats room. Or: Steam engine turns a shaft. Shaft turns a propeller. Propeller pushes a ship through the water. But with a sailboat: Sails provide thrust, using the energy of the wind. Thrust—does what? It seems to act on the whole ship, pushing it through the water. But the ship isn't doing work on a third object, so it's not the mechanism. On the other hand, if the ship is the system on which work is done, where is the mechanism? There doesn't seem to be one. The thrust from the sails and mast goes directly into the ship itself. There are only two terms. Now, it seems as if the spell Propel could fit a situation with two terms, and there could be a spell analogous to Propel that slowed a vehicle as a whole, and drew power from it. Instead of taking power off the shaft of a steamship, and slowing the propeller, and thus slowing the ship by diminishing its thrust, it would slow the ship directly; and it could slow a sailing ship directly the same way. But Draw Power doesn't seem to be that spell.
__________________
Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
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12-04-2017, 11:14 AM | #50 |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
yes it is the 3rd object is the Passenger and Cargos it is movies 3rd object from point A to point B sailboat don't exist to move themselves; like a toy
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