12-03-2017, 12:28 PM | #11 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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We'll start with b) and yes small changes have been made in the TL chart and the start date of TL5 moved forward to 1730 as I said. Clipper ships are also a later development than the "full-rigged" ship with every thing a full rig has and more courses of sails and "stu'n'sails" and a longer leaner hull too. they really are TL5. In fact they're basically the ultimate development of sailing ships and a thing which applied to them could be so much reduced in a TL3 sailing ship that it fell below any point of significance. At just a guess a clipper ship had 20x as much sail area as a TL3 round ship. It's certainly a huge advantage for the later ship.
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Fred Brackin |
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12-03-2017, 12:44 PM | #12 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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As to the TL chart, that's a quick reference guide. Fully rigged ships don't stop existing and being improved at TL5 just as the internal combustion engine didn't stop existing at TL 7. We have better internal combustion engines now. That being said it wouldn't matter for your purposes because clippers wouldn't really generate much more force than the largest fully rigged ships of the previous tech level. The refinements had more to do with reducing drag. The real problem as I said, is that the machine would have to change the direction of motion (or convert it into something like electricity or visible light). |
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12-03-2017, 01:23 PM | #13 |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
The whole point of triangle sail rigged ships is to change the direction of the motion, hence why they can sail in every direct except directly into the wind. If they didn't chnage the diraction the could only sail down wind
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12-03-2017, 01:24 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
As to what sailing ships at TL<5 can be, I submit, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_treasure_ship
China in the 15th century. It's below TL 5, as they lost badly when the europeans showed up... I don't believe that something that size is are giving up a lot in terms of sail area to a clipper - overall weight of ship, yes, but that's not the issue... (some estimates say 2000 tons of cargo, which is to say a mid-sized clipper ship on board!). I agree with David Johnson2 that sailing ships have advanced far beyond TL5, see these for a TL7 example , https://www.wired.com/2017/02/oracle...cas-cup-yacht/ . |
12-03-2017, 01:30 PM | #15 | |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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12-03-2017, 01:36 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
And in real world terms, you take care of that little into the wind problem with a technique called tacking...You can in fact effectively move due north, with the wind blowing due south.
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12-03-2017, 02:08 PM | #17 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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But even then, you can't sail straight upwind. What you do is zigzag across the wind, covering significant extra distance, and thus making less speed than if you were sailing, say, perpendicular to the wind.
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
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12-03-2017, 02:11 PM | #18 |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
for those that don't know, tacking is sailing at slight angle to up wind, the "tacking" to change to a mirror angle, so you end up zig-zaging up your true course. This is was regatta racing typically use a triangle course so that at leas one leg regardless the time of the day (hence changing wind direction) everyone has to deal with a slower tacking leg.
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12-03-2017, 02:27 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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12-03-2017, 02:33 PM | #20 | |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Sailing ships at TL3
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a sail function takes the wind forces perpendicular to the sail converting it onto force parallel to the bow/keel |
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