[Mass Combat] Raise time modified by quality?

[mlangsdorf]

Is the time to raise a unit solely determined by the unit cost, or is it modified by equipment quality and troop quality? My group has been playing it as 1 week per $10K of final raise cost, but rereading p12 implies that it's 1 week per $10K of base raise cost.

On the plus side, if it's just base raise cost, that means Very Fine/Elite Heavy Infantry take only 4 weeks to raise. On the minus side, if it's just base raise cost, it's very weird that you can train Very Fine/Elite Heavy infantry as quickly as you can train Poor/Inferior Heavy Infantry.

Anyone got a solid reference for the answer?

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

Other than common sense, I've got nothing.

But common sense tells me that raising elite units would take longer, and familiarizing a unit with new cutting edge equipment would take longer than just standard stuff.

[Anthony]

Raise time/cost is not training time. It's recruitment time, and you can only recruit troops of whatever quality is available.

[The Benj]

I think the time is based on the final cost, so quality modifies it that way

[Anaraxes]

The text on p12 seems pretty straightforward. It explicitly notes that the cost to raise can be modified by quality (and other factors), and then simply says "For every $10K the element costs to raise... it takes one week". It doesn't say "base raise cost" or "before modifiers" or anything else that might imply anything other than the final total, including all modifiers.

Originally Posted by Anthony

Raise time/cost is not training time. It's recruitment time

The definition of the term explicitly mentions that "raise" includes training.

Originally Posted by Mass Combat p12

Raising a force involves recruiting (or reassigning) personnel, training them, and acquiring new equipment...
For every $10K the element costs to raise (as given by its Raise statistic), it takes one week to recruit, build, and train

Perhaps the raise time shouldn't include training, but it seems that the RAW does include that time.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

The definition of the term explicitly mentions that "raise" includes training.

It also specifies that what quality of troops is available to raise is situational, which doesn't make sense unless they're assumed to come with at least some pretraining.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

The text on p12 seems pretty straightforward. It explicitly notes that the cost to raise can be modified by quality (and other factors), and then simply says "For every $10K the element costs to raise... it takes one week". It doesn't say "base raise cost" or "before modifiers" or anything else that might imply anything other than the final total, including all modifiers.

"...is determined by its cost, as shown in Chapters 2-3. For every $10K the element costs to raise (as given by its Raise statistic)..."

Cost, as shown in Chapters 2-3, is not "cost as shown in chapters 2-3, modified by Quality and Optional Features", and the text for Cost to Raise a Force is different than the text for Time to Raise a Force. Cost to Raise specifically calls out the modifiers, Time to Raise does not.

I originally read it the way you did, and I think it's a highly supportable reading. I just don't think it's explicit, and since it's not explicit, I want to be sure.

Hmm, the text for Improvements implies that retraining and re-equipping should take 1 week per $10K of upgrade price difference, which supports the standard reading of raise time. But it's still implicit.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It also specifies that what quality of troops is available to raise is situational, which doesn't make sense unless they're assumed to come with at least some pretraining.

Or it means that you can't get elite cavalry in the Scottish highlands or elite anything in a country where the average age is 50 or whatever.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Cost, as shown in Chapters 2-3, is not "cost as shown in chapters 2-3, modified by Quality and Optional Features", and the text for Cost to Raise a Force is different than the text for Time to Raise a Force.

Hm -- I see your point. That's a bit fine of a point by the usual GURPS standards, but it certainly fits the letter of the text.