Swarms: How do they work, really

[Ulzgoroth]

I don't see any problem with rapid-striking against swarms. (I do see a problem with the rules talking about attacking with a shield or stomp 'at the same time' as attacking with a weapon without addressing how this interacts with the rules.)

I'm not sure where you're getting Weapon Master and Rapid Strike enabling six attacks. MA p127 says "The GM is free to cap the maximum number of attacks possible with a Rapid Strike", and goes on to suggest the variable limiting option of "simply limit adjusted skill to 12". Six attacks with Weapon Master would be a -15 penalty, so you'd need to have skill 27 by that standard...at which point why not?

If you're operating under a specific regime of WM hardcapped to 6 attacks but no other constraints, then maybe that's a little weird...but really the weird part might be that you need WM to do that.

[GodBeastX]

Combat Writ Large might give a little incite on swarms since some rules there are for creatures attacking and dealing with smaller things.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I'm not sure where you're getting Weapon Master and Rapid Strike enabling six attacks. MA p127 says "The GM is free to cap the maximum number of attacks possible with a Rapid Strike", and goes on to suggest the variable limiting option of "simply limit adjusted skill to 12". Six attacks with Weapon Master would be a -15 penalty, so you'd need to have skill 27 by that standard...at which point why not?

I was about to post the same, so yea I agree on this. I don't see a problem with move and attacking either. Running around flailing wildly seem to be the appropriate response to a swarm attack after all.

As for "is it balanced". Well if the weapon master can make 6 attacks at full damage against a normal human target trying to defend and attack as well. I see no problem with them fly-swatting a mass of rats at the same speed.


[edit]Btw. Since they don't have any defense and no roll to hit is needed, and since YOU do not get any defense anyway you can make an AOA:Determined Telegraphic Rapid Strike. As a weapon master you get -3 per additional attack. So 6 atks are "only" -15 but you get a +8 bonus = -7. You only need skill 19 to pull that off.

But OK, it CAN get a bit silly. Lets say you are using Extra Effort in Combat and don't care about spending the FP. And lets say you have a typical DF-combat focused character with effective skill:24.
You can spend 11 FP and make 12 attacks! (although per RAW I think Flurry of Blow is not allowed with AoA).

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by VIVIT

Necroing this thread because this problem came up in our session yesterday.

The situation dealt with the Rapid Strike rules in particular. 3 hits against a swarm don't seem all that unreasonable, especially since most normal melee damage is reduced to 1 or 2 points, but if you have the Weapon Master advantage, these penalties are halved, allowing you to get 6 free hits.

Our GM just ruled that you can't Rapid Strike against swarms. Is there any official comment on this, or at least a commonly-accepted house rule?

This problem just came up in one of my games too. Is there an official ruling on this?

[zoncxs]

There are no rules stating you cannot rapid strike a swarm. There are only rules for how much damage a swarm takes and how they act.
.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

There are no rules stating you cannot rapid strike a swarm. There are only rules for how much damage a swarm takes and how they act.
.

You can't take a penalty if you aren't making a roll.

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You can't take a penalty if you aren't making a roll.

What are you talking about??? I think you quoted me by accident because your comment does not make sense when I attempt to have it follow my comment.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

What are you talking about??? I think you quoted me by accident because your comment does not make sense when I attempt to have it follow my comment.

You can't rapid strike a swarm because you don't make an attack roll. You don't even have a skill level, nor are you making a skill check.

The swarm rules should really be replaced with more standard mechanics that give a swarm IT(Diffuse), but as is they're special unique rules.

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You can't rapid strike a swarm because you don't make an attack roll.

ah, I see what you mean, but that is wrong.

Yes, you do not roll to attack, but you must still attack. Its only that your attack automatically hits so there is no need to roll. This is like "No die roll required" from Power-Ups 4.

As long as your effect skill is above 3, you succeed. This is because an effect skill below 3 always fails, you cannot attempt it.

This does not prevent you from attempting a rapid strike.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

ah, I see what you mean, but that is wrong.

Yes, you do not roll to attack, but you must still attack.

You must attack, but you are not using any skill and thus do not have a skill level that can suffer penalties.