Transhuman Space/Mage: the Ascension Crossover

[cptbutton]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

I grant you that the New World Order would be good at the Science of Memetics. The Order of Hermes would excell at both the Science and the Art of Memetics. The Hermetic understand science perfectly well and have many scientists in their ranks, it is just that the Hermetics know more ways of knowing than science alone.

Would there be a turf war between the NWO and the Progenitors who think it should fall under biology?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

I grant you that the New World Order would be good at the Science of Memetics. The Order of Hermes would excell at both the Science and the Art of Memetics.

You're missing the point. I was talking about whose paradigm it fits into, not who would actually be good at the underlying skills. A lot of memetics follows from advertising technology, so the Syndicate is probably pretty good at it, it just doesn't especially fall into their paradigm.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You're missing the point. I was talking about whose paradigm it fits into, not who would actually be good at the underlying skills. A lot of memetics follows from advertising technology, so the Syndicate is probably pretty good at it, it just doesn't especially fall into their paradigm.

Memetics follow from LOGOS the first SAI (and generally is something that can only be done well with proper software and preferably by a SAI), so it's either Mind or Matter+Mind by origin.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

Would there be a turf war between the NWO and the Progenitors who think it should fall under biology?

Not as such. It's just that the Desk Jockeys of the NNW and the Syndicate believe that the unsophistocated Lab Rats of the three less streetwise orders need to take their lead from them. This does not endear them to their allies.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Memetics follow from LOGOS the first SAI (and generally is something that can only be done well with proper software and preferably by a SAI), so it's either Mind or Matter+Mind by origin.

Seconded! And thank-you for making the point so splendedly.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Memetics follow from LOGOS the first SAI (and generally is something that can only be done well with proper software and preferably by a SAI), so it's either Mind or Matter+Mind by origin.

Missing the point. Paradigm isn't just about what you can do, it's also about how you describe what you're doing. A Cult of Ecstasy mage might accomplish exactly the same thing as a NWO mage using memetics, but he won't describe what he's doing as memetic engineering (an order of Hermes mage might; thinking of a Word as a meme is semi-plausible, though Words seem more akin to platonic Forms).

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Missing the point. Paradigm isn't just about what you can do, it's also about how you describe what you're doing. A Cult of Ecstasy mage might accomplish exactly the same thing as a NWO mage using memetics, but he won't describe what he's doing as memetic engineering (an order of Hermes mage might; thinking of a Word as a meme is semi-plausible, though Words seem more akin to platonic Forms).

The Cult of E mage would be able to bring passion to the project without wrecking the project, vital for art. Remember, art is the most powerful vector of memetics. Hermetics can both get the science and see the other angles as well. Science, logic, and reason are without a doubt humanity's greatest tools, but they aren't the only tools.

[Astromancer]

If you want to deal with the Cainites in 2100AD THS this is my take.

Brujah = They either love the fact that the whole power sructure of the human world is in flux and/or they mean to creat a bigger Revolution yet. Traditional societies are coming apart at the seams, this is a joy to the Brujahs. On the downside, surveilence is a serious burden to them.

Many of the more intellectual and/or older Brujahs have gone into deep space to try to set up utopias.

Gangrel = The fact that many humans are getting biomods and going to live in the wilds is grand news for the Gangrel. Or it would be if the Lupines weren't so bitter about everything. Still, many Gangrel with substantial animalistic features can walk down the street without the slightest violation of the Masquerade. They just need to explain were they got their cool mods.

Malkavian = Malkav's childer hate this new world. To many social workers, and they've closed up all the cracks! Most Malkavians that live outside of mental hospitals live in deep space.

Nosferatu = Paul Simon said that there were "angels in the architecture." He never met the Nosferatu. Given the vast complex interwoven structures of the cities of 2100AD, the Nosferatu can hide in ten thousand new hidey holes. Let other clans get pushed off the Earth the Nosferatu are finding new worlds between the walls.

Toreador = The Eloi masses of the Fifth Wave cities are our paradise proclaim the Toreadors. More art being created than ever before, vast numbers of schools and styles. The party scenes cover the planet. The Toreador have both unlimited chances to push their personal visions and to hunt.

Tremere = The Tremere realise they have it both ways. There is more atheism and disbelief than ever before and yet supersition and seekers after the mystic abound. They can pick the best of the low-hanging fruit and be secure in the belief that they are totally ignored.

The Tremere as a clan are pursuing several projects in the Deep Beyond. Some are attempts to create new types of ghouls and revelants. Others are vast rites and rituals.

Ventrue = The Ventrue are unsure of themselves. They seem to have less real and substantive power than before but greater opportunities for subtle influence. String-pulling still works, but each string is so fragile. Worse, you can't push on a string. The elders find themselves frozen and the young chafe under restrictions.

The Camilla as a whole seems to like this world of vast herds of prey and easy hidding in plain sight. But the rapid expanion of information technology and the growing push for a fuller democracy threaten their sources of power. A prolonged bio-tech war, by radically thining the herds, could destroy the masquerade in a single week. The Camilla strugles to find a balance.

More later.

[Astromancer]

The Sabbat hates this new world. So many of their best hunting grounds are all clean and shinny. The missing are easier to trace and the officials keep looking longer. As a group, the Sabbat is far less skilled at the Masquerade. After they've a basic objection to the very idea. Now they need to become brilliant at the Masquerade or be wiped out.

[DocRailgun]

The Brujah that matter have never been about "Revolution" for the sake of anarchy. the Brujah elders have been working a long con against the Roman Ventrue and Toreador that destroyed their experiment at Carthage. The iconclasm of the public face of the Clan was a way to keep the Ventrue from using the Camarilla to wipe out the scattered Brujah post-Carthage.

What Gangrel are left are likely a unified Clan and what would have been called "City Gangrel" by the 20th Century Sabbat. There may well be elder Gangrel living in wild places, but they're very old indeed and probably could care less about human society.

The Malkavians must LOVE the TS world - the Madness Network bleeds into the memetic web - besides, noone (except the Malkavians themselves) know if their "insanity" is anything but an act. More than likely what other Kindred see as madness is just the impinging of so many minds talking at once over the Network.

The Tremere as a Clan probably didn't survive the rise of Tremere Himself in the body of Goratrix and the destruction of the antitribu Tremere. Between the Assamites rage and the Tzmice sensing weakness they would have been picked off one by one. Possibly just Saulot (in Tremere's body) and Tremere Himself (in Goratrix' body) are left.

The younger Ventrue have a perfect world - they can create all the groups they want that satisfy their blood needs and have control massive resources all over the world if they want. What makes them less powerful online and in this new world is that they can't use their Disciplines to manipulate people in person.

The Camarilla is more and more a rarified organization of elders who want to play dress-up. The Traditions mean nothing these nights.

Masquerade - noone cares if someone calls themselves a vampire. There's not going to be an uprising of mortals hunting such a person down, even if they start drinking blood. Murders, that's something different, of course.

Domain - good luck finding a Kindred that can fly into one's city and drink from whoever they want and fly out again before the "Prince" knows what's happened.

Progeny, Accounting, Hospitality, Destruction - see above.

The Camarilla will have to change and become a financial powerhouse if they want to keep control of the Childer.

Originally Posted by Astromancer

If you want to deal with the Cainites in 2100AD THS this is my take.

Brujah = They either love the fact that the whole power sructure of the human world is in flux and/or they mean to creat a bigger Revolution yet. Traditional societies are coming apart at the seams, this is a joy to the Brujahs. On the downside, surveilence is a serious burden to them.

Many of the more intellectual and/or older Brujahs have gone into deep space to try to set up utopias.

Gangrel = The fact that many humans are getting biomods and going to live in the wilds is grand news for the Gangrel. Or it would be if the Lupines weren't so bitter about everything. Still, many Gangrel with substantial animalistic features can walk down the street without the slightest violation of the Masquerade. They just need to explain were they got their cool mods.

Malkavian = Malkav's childer hate this new world. To many social workers, and they've closed up all the cracks! Most Malkavians that live outside of mental hospitals live in deep space.

Nosferatu = Paul Simon said that there were "angels in the architecture." He never met the Nosferatu. Given the vast complex interwoven structures of the cities of 2100AD, the Nosferatu can hide in ten thousand new hidey holes. Let other clans get pushed off the Earth the Nosferatu are finding new worlds between the walls.

Toreador = The Eloi masses of the Fifth Wave cities are our paradise proclaim the Toreadors. More art being created than ever before, vast numbers of schools and styles. The party scenes cover the planet. The Toreador have both unlimited chances to push their personal visions and to hunt.

Tremere = The Tremere realise they have it both ways. There is more atheism and disbelief than ever before and yet supersition and seekers after the mystic abound. They can pick the best of the low-hanging fruit and be secure in the belief that they are totally ignored.

The Tremere as a clan are pursuing several projects in the Deep Beyond. Some are attempts to create new types of ghouls and revelants. Others are vast rites and rituals.

Ventrue = The Ventrue are unsure of themselves. They seem to have less real and substantive power than before but greater opportunities for subtle influence. String-pulling still works, but each string is so fragile. Worse, you can't push on a string. The elders find themselves frozen and the young chafe under restrictions.

The Camilla as a whole seems to like this world of vast herds of prey and easy hidding in plain sight. But the rapid expanion of information technology and the growing push for a fuller democracy threaten their sources of power. A prolonged bio-tech war, by radically thining the herds, could destroy the masquerade in a single week. The Camilla strugles to find a balance.

More later.