Evaluate useless? (from Why Wait)

[Nosforontu]

I would add a few possibilities for using Evaluate from my own experiences

1: When attacking costs you resources. For instance if attacking costs you a fatigue point each time you attack (such as from an imbuement skill) and you need your attacks to land because of this evaluate becomes a better an increasingly better option to take as your resources get lower and lower.

2: When your prepping for a just in case scenario. For instance lets say your swashbuckler is acting as the thiefs body guard when he is negotiating the sale of the parties latest loot with some shady characters. Your character might use Evaluate on a particularly dangerous potential opponent in this situation just in case the negotiations go sour.

3: When attacking is dangerous but you feel a need to do so during the encounter anyways, for instance if a enemy priest is protected by a aura that triggers against attacks against regardless if those attacks hit or not then attacks that land become a higher priority than simply attacking.

4: When your misses become dangerous. Fairly rare but occasionally an important consideration when the opponent is using something or someone to shield himself from you and if you hit on a miss or successful block by him its a bad thing from your sides prospective. For example a demon using a child as a living shield against your character and any successful block by the demon means that you hit the child.

Yes evaluate is a relatively rare choice among the various combat choices that will frequently be overshadowed by more active choices but it does have times when it becomes the best or only viable choice for a character.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by Nosforontu

I would add a few possibilities for using Evaluate from my own experiences

One more that I don't think has been covered.

You opponent will let you have 1 free hit before he ______. Once you attack you have to deal with the event triggered.

Might be that he doesn't consider you a threat, you are about to attack an 'ally' or some sort of punch for punch situation. Evaluate just gives the GM a guide of how to rule the bonus rather than hand waving.

[Johnny Angel]

One important difference to point out between Evaluate and Aim is that defending does not spoil your Evaluate. This (I think) allows Evaluate bonuses to be used in conjuction with many other tactics.

In particular, giving yourself a bonus with which to increase your ability to Deceptive Attack works. Both Evaluate and Deceptive Attack can be used in conjunction with Counterattack.

turn 1: evaluate
turn 2: evaluate
turn 3: deceptive counterattack... I know have an extra 2 points I can dump to give you another -1 to your defense, and you also get -2 to your parry or -1 to dodge or block. None of this is counting any amount of what I was capable of already.

So, for a completely arbitrary example, let's say our foe has a parry of 10. That now becomes 7; the opponent's chance of defending drops from 50% to somewhere around 16%.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel

So, for a completely arbitrary example, let's say our foe has a parry of 10. That now becomes 7; the opponent's chance of defending drops from 50% to somewhere around 16%.

Of course, his chance of blocking three attacks in a row is only 12.5%. In this situation, for every blow the Evaluator lands, he would have averaged 1.8 hits by just attacking each turn. Using Evaluate to buff a Deceptive attack is not usually efficient - unless there are other incentives involved.

[jacobmuller]

I wonder if Mr Punch has a houserule for Evaluate or does he use it RAW and do his players find RAW Evaluate acceptable?

[Kromm]

My players use Evaluate as written. It's a special-purpose maneuver whose niche is "making use of a turn on which an attack wouldn't be the ideal choice," such as when waiting for allies to get into position before rushing someone. It mostly sees use immediately before a sudden attack that initiates combat; in effect, it lets the side that initiates action do so at +3. It isn't as generally useful as Attack or Move . . . but then, all maneuvers aren't of equal value. Look at Do Nothing! We put Evaluate into 4e specifically to differentiate aggressors (who start combat after three Evaluates, for +3) from their victims (who enter combat after a series of Do Nothings); it's worded in terms of a second-by-second combat maneuver only for consistency. We didn't seriously think that fighters would often select it (or Do Nothing!) in a raging fight.

[jacobmuller]

Thank you, Sean. Sorry for having asked yet another nitpicking question.
Not the use I'd figured on but it is the one a few forumites suggested.
Which I guess kinda makes the OP right - RAW Evaluate isn't for middle of the fight bonuses. Cool.
I think I'm gonna go with melee pauses being failed/ poor Feints, ie cautious fighters don't drive home an attack until they feel certain of success.

[Ulzgoroth]

I don't think I've ever seen that motivation put forth before. Considering how often Evaluate's merits come up, I wonder if that's FAQ material.

[Tyalientur]

Evaluate is useful when you need to move and have an opportunity to make an accurate attack, or to take down an opponent while avoiding special techniques.

For example:
- if, for any tactical reason, you want to move backward, using Retreat, you must not attack to avoid that your opponent does the same thing; then, after several moves, you have a chance to land an accurate attack;
- if your opponent has a better reach than you and stays out of your reach, you can use Evaluate to prepare an All-Out Attack that may break this situation;
- several techniques are used when the opponent has done a parry on your attack (like a Judo throw): Evaluate, then make a very deceptive attack to avoid the parry and the risk to finish prone or worse.

[Fnugus]

I have one question: Someone mentioned somewhere that a Wait maneuver can be turned into an Aim maneuver and used this for aguing why he houseruled that Wait can be turned into an Evaluate as well... Now, skimming through my books, I can't find any mention of this. Can you point to a page where this is stated?