[MA] Striking ST and Ranged Weapons

[ADAXL]

I was just going over some older threads on Striking ST vs Arm ST:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=69074 and http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=73539

I am now trying to patch together how these forms of specialized ST training would work with ranged weapons. So, lets try it:

Striking ST: All thrown weapons and Slings. Crossbows are most likely not covered. They require more effort to cock than the fast, hard movements covered by Striking ST. I am not sure if Bows are covered. The rules for Foot Archery on p. 181 of GURPS Martial Arts mentions only Arm ST, but this may simply be a representation of historical archery training. Striking ST might work with an archery style where the bow is quickly drawn and released.

Arm ST: All thrown weapons, Slings and Bows. It might work with crossbows.

Both types of ST would improve damage and range. With muscle-powered weapons, this appears unavoidable. If you throw with more force, the missile will hit harder and fly farther.

Comments are welcome.

[Qcumber]

The main muscles used in drawing a bow are those in the back.

I wonder if lifting ST would therefore not be most appropriate for using bows; and even crossbows.

Or perhaps a new advantage which indicates developing the muscles specific for using a bow. Don't know how you would cost this; less than arm or lifting ST as it would have very limited use; maybe 2 points?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Qcumber

The main muscles used in drawing a bow are those in the back.

I wonder if lifting ST would therefore not be most appropriate for using bows; and even crossbows.

Or perhaps a new advantage which indicates developing the muscles specific for using a bow. Don't know how you would cost this; less than arm or lifting ST as it would have very limited use; maybe 2 points?

The strongbow perk allows you to wield a bow up to +2 ST higher than you can draw without it; this is specifically building up the muscles specific to using a bow. Special Exercises (Arm ST) is also allowed for another +2 to ST for drawing a bow.

This is +2 thr damage advantage over non archers who don't have the background justification for this perk and exercises. That's a lot.

[Qcumber]

I envisaged the strongbow perk to be more technique than muscular development but I guess these go hand-in-hand. Adding the arm ST makes sense. However, improving back muscles would have a bigger impact on the ability to use a higher weight bow than improving arm muscles. It's a minor thing and probably does not make much difference in GURPS terms.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Qcumber

I envisaged the strongbow perk to be more technique than muscular development but I guess these go hand-in-hand. Adding the arm ST makes sense. However, improving back muscles would have a bigger impact on the ability to use a higher weight bow than improving arm muscles. It's a minor thing and probably does not make much difference in GURPS terms.

I would read "Arm ST" as "strength when using the arms as manipulators," rather than "the strength of the arm below the shoulder."

It's going to include enough back and core strength to do what you have to do with your arms. It probably includes a bunch of pectoral ST as well.

Likwise, "Leg ST" includes your lower back, abdomen, glutes, abductors, as well as your hammies, quads, calves, and enough tendon and ligament robustness to exploit the muscular power.

[Qcumber]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I would read "Arm ST" as "strength when using the arms as manipulators," rather than "the strength of the arm below the shoulder."

I had not really thought of it that way before but it makes a lot of sense.

[vitruvian]

Lifting ST should work for both crossbows and regular bows, at least to the extent that you can take a second to make the draw. After all, Lifting ST determines BL, which defines how much weight you can lift (or, presumably, pull) in one second's time; as BL goes up, so too should the draw weight you can pull and hold on a bow.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Lifting ST should work for both crossbows and regular bows, at least to the extent that you can take a second to make the draw. After all, Lifting ST determines BL, which defines how much weight you can lift (or, presumably, pull) in one second's time; as BL goes up, so too should the draw weight you can pull and hold on a bow.

Hasn't Kromm said that Striking ST (and not Lifting ST) determines damage for Bows?

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Hasn't Kromm said that Striking ST (and not Lifting ST) determines damage for Bows?

*nods* A few times... here, ferrinstance.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

*nods* A few times... here, ferrinstance.

Reading what he actually says, though, the only time I can see Lifting ST not applying just as well is for quick draws of less than a second. For any longer time to draw and hold, being able to lift more is going to translate into being able to pull and hold more.