Design Discussion: Alternate Energy Systems

[oneofmanynameless]

(Part I of II)
So I'm running a game with a lot of different types of powers from different sources. Each different power source has it's own resource, functionally equivalent to Energy Reserve or Fatigue, which it uses to pay for power stunts and ability costs (abilities have energy costs as per the "Abilities and Exertion" sidebar on page 159 of GURPS Powers, and always have access to "Godlike Extra Effort", "Temporary modifiers", "Abilities on Default", and "Linking up.")

So far the systems that I'm using are:
1. Threshold/Tally (unlimited mana rules from GURPS Thaumatology)
- I've created a custom calamity table. It's removed most permanent penalties and replaced them with "plot arch defining inconveniences", i.e. worse and worse chaos for the player to have to deal with rather than reductions in capacities.
2. Corruption (corruption rules from GURPS Horror)
- To make this system more tolerable and enticing corruption does not lower character point total. Instead, it buys disadvantages AND an equivalent value worth of advantages that represent a gradual corruption of the characters mind into a evil creature and a gradual shifting of their body into an evil monster as well! Thus, the price is that your character becomes less your character and more of an NPC monster, but not strictly less powerful. This resource can be purchased as an additional resource for any power modifier (like a spirit contract). Where I to use it as the base resource for an entire power source I'd give the player a 2-1 ratio on energy (every corruption is worth 2 energy for stunts and payments, etc.)
3. Fatigue
- I never leave anything alone, even this: I'm using a mashup of PKs rules for long term fatigue from "After the End" and "The Last Gasp" pyramid article with a few home rules in there. I can elaborate if people like, but I think it's basically balanced against normal fatigue.
4. Sanity
- This system is essentially a mental version of the my fatigue rules based on a mashup of Ghostdancers "Mad as Bones" pyramid article with "The Last Gasp" pyramid article.
5. Energy Reserve
- One of the types of powers uses basic energy reserve to pay for their powers, using the standard rules for energy reserve. This is probably the best basic reference point.

Note: Access to ANY type of energy for fueling power stunts requires a 30 pt advantage. For most of them this is a 50 pt "Alternate Energy Access" advantage with the -40% limitation "Only for X power source", but for energy reserve it's 30 pts worth of energy reserve (x type). These advantages are only necessary to pay for power stunts ("Godlike Extra Effort", "Temporary modifiers", "Abilities on Default", and "Linking up"), as base costs (i.e. the costs from "Abilities and Exertion") are usually treated as a -5% limitation that's a part of the power mod (i.e. Ki powers draw on fatigue to fuel them, so all Ki powers have "fatiguing" as part of their power mod for -5% which means that they use the "Abilities and Exertion" rules drawing on fatigue. For powers that use Energy Reserve, which can't be spent if you haven't bought it, they just have an extra -5% worth of use limitations on their power modifier.)

However, I need more systems of energy, more resources, then I currently have listed above as I have more power modifiers then resource systems and would like to maintain the feeling of each power having it's own unique feeling resource. So I've thought of a couple of options but I'm not completely sure which of them is best fits for different mods and how to balance them.

What I've got so far is:
- Cosmic/Reality Warping - Threshold/Tally
- Ki - Fatigue
- Psi - Sanity
- Magic - Energy Reserve

The remaining power modifiers are:
- Spirit/divine
- Superscience
- Cinematic (yes, I'm building all cinematic capabilities as powers)

The ideas I have for potential systems:
- Tally system with an alternate calamity table
- Corruption system with a 2-1 ratio
- Toxicity/Radiation backlash
- Irritating/incapacitating condition backlash

[oneofmanynameless]

(Part II of II)

The thoughts I have so far for different mods:
Superscience abilities mostly come in two forms: gadgets and cybernetics. Gadgets are built as gadget limited advantages and are what I'd consider to be the "default" type of superscience ability. As such it would be awkward for a character who's built around superscience powers (each of which is a different gadget) to have one central resource that all of those powers draw on (there could be specific instances where you have a central, 'power pack' but I don't want the system to assume that's true because there are plenty of instances where it wouldn't be.) This sort of rules out Corruption entirely. Threshold/Tally could potentially work, but only if each device had it's own threshold and tally count, which seems like more notekeeping then even my gaming group wants to do and also really hard to balance properly.
This led me to the idea of having their resource be "Backlash": rather than having a pool of energy that gets expended when you use an ability, gadgets tend to blow up in your face when you make them push the envelope with a power stunt, causing explosions of radiation, toxic chemicals, electrical surges, or even just plain old fires, all scaled in intensity with how much "energy" the power stunt cost.

For example, Jimmy wants to alter his ray gun to fire an explosive blast. Using the temporary modifiers rules he takes a second and rolls on his armoury (ray guns) skill at no penalty, because he's accepting a huge backlash from this feat. He then fires his shot at the enemy. If he succeeds his armoury check the shot gains the explosive modifier. Either way the gun will backlash. To determine how that plays out the GM figures out how much "energy" the feat cost: 2 for a temporary modifier and 5 to buy off the -5 for a 50% modifier for a total of 7 energy. He then rolls on a table to determine the type of backlash: radiation, poison, electricity, fire, or an explosive (and maybe persistent!) version of one of this. The GM determines it's going to be a radiation surge, so he adds to dice the energy expenditure (7 goes to 2d) and rolls it. Jimmy looses that many rad points (using PKs radiation rules from "After the End") as his hasty modifications cause the wonderflonium powering his ray gun to release a surge of radiation that irradiates him.

The question is how to balance this. Is a rad point (using PKs radiation rules from "After the End") equivalent to a single Fatigue or Energy reserve? How about 1 HP worth of damage from toxic damage (gadget spews toxic chemicals!) or 1 HP worth of damage from burn damage (with or without the surge modifier as the gadget either bursts into flames or electrocutes the wielder.) Obviously gadgets should sometimes cause explosions and not just hurt the user, but under what circumstances is that fair? Should it just be a roll on a table to see what type of backlash and one of the options is to roll again and cause an explosion of that type? If so should you use two different tables depending on whether or not the power is cybernetic or an external gadget? Is this system balanced against Fatigue or Energy Reserve, which both have the ability to recover somewhat quickly from mild expenditures? Is it too exploitable? What do people think of this system as a concept? How would you balance it? Do you have any alternative resource system for super science powers that excites you?

Cinematic abilities are usually not treated as powers but when the idea occurred to me to build them as such it tickled me so much I had to do it and it's turned out to be very effective and fun. They range from inborn capacities that stretch the envelope of what humans can really do (such as mildly autistic characters with brains like supercomputers, or characters who have the deductive reading skills of Sherlock Holmes from the BBCs Sherlock [which I model as Psychometry and Empathy with the mundane modifier]) to wild card skills which I treat as a full power (the abilities of that power are usually a talent and any of Wild Talent, Destiny Points, Serendipity, Luck, Modular Points [for skills or contacts], Super Luck, etc all requiring the Aspected modifier.)

The main problem is that they are quite often story driven meta abilities, which means they really can't cost the character fatigue or sanity to use more. It's not the character who decides to pay the price for using godlike extra effort on their Serendipity to get an extra level for that extra help, it's the player who decides it. So it doesn't really make any sense for the character to get exhausted or stressed because of their surprisingly good luck.

My biggest idea for what I could do for this is do a second power type that uses the Threshold/Tally system but create a new and different calamity table whose results are all geared towards, essentially, bad luck and reinforcing enemies capabilities. This would be similar to how "Villainous Impulses" works in Power Ups: Impulse Buys. As the character pushes the limits of their hyper competency their enemies start to get more lucky to compensate. So the things on the table would be things like... important enemies gaining villain points for this session, otherwise mook enemies getting names and becoming a real problem, unlucky serendipity moments, all the way up to acquiring new and very formidable enemies that will cause serious life threatening issues for you and define the next arch of the game.

What do people think of that idea? Do they have problems with it? What sorts of things would they advice to put on the table? Do they have any other sort of advice about making such a table? Do they have other ideas for what a really interesting resource might be for cinematic abilities getting power stunted?

Spirit/Divine powers come in 2 forms: the abilities of those who channel the powers of a higher power such as clerics and paladins and priests, and the abilities of incarnate spirits. I think the corruption system I described above, using a 2-1 ratio and an appropriate "spiritual serviter" racial template, works very well for these types of powers thematically. Those who channel higher powers being gradually altered by the powers they channel makes sense, and it is often a part of spirit lore that spirits have enormous power but are usually diminished or corrupted whenever they try to push that power to far or go beyond their station in any way. However, I'm worried about the permanent nature of this system in a long run game, particularly when this is meant as a primary power resource rather than an emergency fallback. What are peoples thoughts on this system for these types of powers and it's permanent nature? Would you use a different system? Would you give it some forgiveness?

Magic currently uses energy reserve. However, restricting energy reserve to only one power, instead of being something you can purchase for any sort of power, is extremely limiting. One idea I had was for magic to cause backlash in the forms of irritating and incapacitating conditions whenever push the envelop with the power based on the type of otherworldly energies you are drawing on to fuel the spell. It would be pretty easy to equate conditions with energy by finding their equivalent value as modifiers: just find the value of the irritating or incapacitating condition as a backlash using the backlash rules in GURPS Powers and then find the equivalent amount of Costs Fatigue to determine each conditions value. For instance, Euphoria is a -30% backlash so it'd be worth 6 energy as costs fp 6 is also -30%. How do people feel about this system? How do they feel about how it stacks up with the others?

I'm also very interested in any other thoughts anyone has on any of this!

[Fred Brackin]

Have you considered the possible niche for "Mundane humans who don't get screwed over by the special powers rules but still have lots of cp to spend?". :)

That would be the way I as leaning based on the options you've mentioned so far. Though I suppose I could go with vanilla Magic/ Fatigue is you haven't nerfed that too much. I wouldn't touch the other types you've mentioned.

<shrug> Jus the way I get when these sorts of schemes for attaching unpleasant consequences to special powers get floated around here. you really could end up with a PC who wants to spend his cp on things that won't bite him in the butt and it could potentially end up being the most effective choice.

[Daigoro]

So you're looking for alternative things to spend to power abilities?

A couple of quick ideas-
1) Youth: use of the power ages the PC. Fine to start with, becomes a gamble later on with aging rolls. Sudden large expenditures might acquire age-like impairments, such as Bad Eyesight or Lame.

2) Will Points/Per Points/DX Points: equivalent to FP, but based on alternative stats. Will is the easiest to imagine as mental exhaustion, Per or DX a bit trickier. Clouded perceptions might be the result of mental or spiritual effort? DX Points might represent getting the jitters from using ST-based abilities, powered by cyber or drug implants.

3) Social Capital: burning through favours and influence, and then indebting yourself to powers that be. You'd have to consider if you want to represent this with an abstract point-scale system or more realistically.

4) Sleep? Dreams?: Actually, burning your dreams to power an ability or selling dreams to astral entities would both be interesting angles.

5) Appearance: using the power makes you uglier and uglier in general, or you start to take on a corrupt or bestial appearance.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Have you considered the possible niche for "Mundane humans who don't get screwed over by the special powers rules but still have lots of cp to spend?". :)

That would be the way I as leaning based on the options you've mentioned so far. Though I suppose I could go with vanilla Magic/ Fatigue is you haven't nerfed that too much. I wouldn't touch the other types you've mentioned.

<shrug> Jus the way I get when these sorts of schemes for attaching unpleasant consequences to special powers get floated around here. you really could end up with a PC who wants to spend his cp on things that won't bite him in the butt and it could potentially end up being the most effective choice.

This is a powers only game. So skill based vanilla magic doesn't exist. Neither does RPM or verb/noun magic or ritual magic or path book or even cinematic skills. Also, everyone in this game has powers, and all powers have costs, and all powers are designed by the GM and acquired in play by players who have a choice in what they decide to adopt and use. Players start as mundane characters who haven't acquired powers yet.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

This is a powers only game. So skill based vanilla magic doesn't exist. Neither does RPM or verb/noun magic or ritual magic or path book or even cinematic skills. Also, everyone in this game has powers, and all powers have costs, and all powers are designed by the GM and acquired in play by players who have a choice in what they decide to adopt and use. Players start as mundane characters who haven't acquired powers yet.

<shrug> Ho-kay. If you've already got a group of players for this and they're fine with your terms I wish you all fun.

If you don't have a group yet don't be surprised if some people turn you down. I've known people who really didn't care how badly screwed up their characters got. They were always first in line to play with the new artifact. It's just that sometimes it worked out better to not be them such as the time I informed the GM "I will throw a rock at the _other_ thing that looks like a Sphere of Annihilation.".

[Flyndaran]

"Hey look; it's a powerful book of magi..." - Player 1
"I BURN IT!" Player 2, veteran of Lovecraftian games.

Seriously though, it can be awesome RP potential to have a character reject a "power up" as coming with too high a price.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

<shrug> Ho-kay. If you've already got a group of players for this and they're fine with your terms I wish you all fun.

If you don't have a group yet don't be surprised if some people turn you down. I've known people who really didn't care how badly screwed up their characters got. They were always first in line to play with the new artifact. It's just that sometimes it worked out better to not be them such as the time I informed the GM "I will throw a rock at the _other_ thing that looks like a Sphere of Annihilation.".

I do have a group, but I also understand the sentiment you're bringing up and think that it really is a valid point.

My intent is basically "All powers have mild costs to use, but you can twist and turn them and enhance them every which way with power stunts using whatever resource the basic costs cost."

With the baseline balance point being that using powers will cost fatigue over time like running, or dock you a few extra fatigue during a fight, but you can enhance your powers however much you like at the cost of additional fatigue.

The other energy systems are meant to be equivalent to fatigue. i.e 1 tally = 1 fatigue = 1 stress = 1 energy reserve = .5 corruption = ? backlash.

I'm mostly using systems that are stated to be that in various resources (tally, fatigue, energy reserve, corruption, and sanity.) So the question is: where do you think that this is not the case? Where do you think that these things are more punishing than fatigue?

EDIT: Also, I try to make sure that players are never really screwed in the long run by using powers in basic ways. This is my biggest worry about the corruption system, that every time you use an ability it's a permanent mark against you. I don't mind this being an option the players have, but I don't like it being a necessity for using powers at all.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

"Hey look; it's a powerful book of magi..." - Player 1
"I BURN IT!" Player 2, veteran of Lovecraftian games.

Seriously though, it can be awesome RP potential to have a character reject a "power up" as coming with too high a price.

I live for this. For the sake of players actually enjoying the game and feeling like the GM is not out to screw them I try to rain it in a lot. But I also make NOTHING free on the power front (besides basic mundane stuff like your characters basic skills and talents.)

[dcarson]

For Spirit/Divine powers something like Learned Prayers for the routine uses so that those don't cause problems might work. If you are asking a "good" Divine power for help the Corruption might not be in the sense of becoming worse also. Getting Honesty, Sense of Duty etc added is a cost also even though they aren't bad things.

Money can be another cost of power. Having to sacrifice rare items, expensive gems etc. can be a cost of power. To level Wealth make it based on Cost of Living. PCs can also sacrifice things they got adventuring of course.