Food & other stuff production in a farm

[(E)]

To save points remember that the perk gives milk is off set by Dependant. ;)

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Hide

Very roughly, a cow's milk production also depends of the frequency you milk the cow and its racial features. The more you empty the animal, the more production capacity it will have over time (within its natural limits). If you want the best production ratio, you will need better milking, better grazing and good timing. In other words, better grazing and milking frequency only give bonuses to milk production. Ultimately, milk production depends of the creature's capacity.

Capacity is what you'd stat for. For game purposes, I don't think I'd bother with things as nuanced as optimal milking schedules and the like, although if a job roll is involved, you could maybe stat it out based on an MoS of 2, then modify actual production based on the roll.

Originally Posted by Hide

And what is SSR?

Sorry, +1 SSR is the shorthand I use for "+1 step on the Speed and Size/Range Table." SSR is the progression many rules in GURPS use - 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 5, 7, 10, 15, 20, and so forth. So, +4 SSR is 4 steps beyond x1, meaning x5. +1 SSR is x1.5. And so forth.

Originally Posted by (E)

What if production costs long term fatigue, this may be a way of reflecting the effects of negative stresses on the animal. This won't work in every case though, wool from sheep being one example.

That could be an option, although I'd just consider it a function of the animal, well, working. An animal that produces a commodity pretty much just by existing, like guano for bats or wool for sheep, may be more appropriately considered as having Independent Income.

Originally Posted by (E)

Also a steer would have "a job for life"

Producing edible meat is pretty much just a function of being a biological being and lacking Unusual Biochemistry, poisonous blood, etc. It being socially acceptable to eat you is probably part of Social Stigma (Valuable Property) or similar.

Originally Posted by Joe

I love this idea - and would never have thought of it. Cows with Tenure - nice!

Unless a cow/cow-person's milk costs a lot more than the GURPS rules imply*, Tenure is more appropriate for driders and the like, who produce a high-value commodity (spider silk).

*Cheese is around $4/lb, going off of the cost for rations. A cow typically produces, with decent grazing, 40 gallons of milk a year, for 80 lb of cheese. That's $320 per year, which is less than even a Poor job at TL 0. You can boost this to 200 gallons, for 400 lb of cheese and $1600, with excellent grazing or supplemental grain feed. Excellent grazing doesn't have a defined price, but the grain supplements necessary to make up for it gives us a good estimate - $80/month, or $960 per year. That doubles net gain to $640 per year, which is still below a Poor job at TL 0 - and this is assuming the milk just turns to cheese without any need for further work, and those production numbers are for cattle at TL 4.

So, yeah - just a Perk, and only use Tenure when you're talking about producing something more profitable.

[Kelly Pedersen]

I wouldn't overcomplicate this. If you can produce some valuable material over a period, that you can reliably sell for some quick cash, that sounds to me like Independent Income. If you've got something that takes longer than a month to produce (like a pearl), just calculate what you can expect to get for selling one, then divide the cost by the number of months it takes to produce to get the level of Independent Income it's worth. So, for example, if you produce one $10,000 pearl every year, that's $833 per month, so 4 levels of Independent Income (at TL 8) would cover it.

If the value of the substance is less than the money one level of Independent Income gives you, I'd just call it a perk, yeah, as long as it's got some uses other than money. Milk, for example, could be used for someone to drink, put out a small fire, etc. But if it's much less than a level of II, and doesn't have another use (you produce copper worth $20 a month in a TL 8 setting, for instance), I'd just call it a feature.

If you want to introduce some variability, you can give the character a roll (probably a straight HT roll, for most biological produce of this nature), and vary the price up on a success and down on a failure. +-10% on a success/failure, and +-20% for a critical success/failure, sounds about right to me.

[Varyon]

The problem with Independent Income for things like, say, spider silk, is that II doesn't require work on the part of the character (aside from maybe having to go to the bank/storehouse to pick up the money), while spider silk requires the character to take time out to actively produce the stuff. Milk is arguably somewhere in between, as the character probably isn't spending 8 hours a day being milked - but at the same time the character does have to spend extra time (and possibly money, which are arguably equivalent) eating and resting than someone who isn't producing the milk, which may balance out.

For something that just gets produced more-or-less passively, like guano or wool*, II is indeed a pretty good fit, as I mentioned above.

*Yes, wool does require some time to sheer the sheep, but it's really a fairly short time all told, and enough to abstract away.

EDIT: For some - most? - products, it may be appropriate to have the character produce the goods in less than the nominal 8-hour work day, but be able to produce no more than that. Arguably, to work out the price, you'd do a weighted average of the cost for II and the cost for the modified Tenure. If I ever actually produce a race with such an ability, I may work out a better scheme then.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Varyon

The problem with Independent Income for things like, say, spider silk, is that II doesn't require work on the part of the character (aside from maybe having to go to the bank/storehouse to pick up the money), while spider silk requires the character to take time out to actively produce the stuff.

If production takes a substantial amount of your time in a day, I agree, that's not Independent Income. But I'd argue that in that case, it's just a regular job, just a "freelance" one that you can't be fired from (but a critical failure of the job roll can mean no income that month). I'd put the cutoff at about 1 hour a day - if producing your stuff takes longer than that, treat it as a job, less it's Independent Income.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

But I'd argue that in that case, it's just a regular job, just a "freelance" one that you can't be fired from

Which is exactly why I suggested Tenure, for the whole "can't be fired from" bit. Well, technically you can be fired from a job with Tenure, but then you could suffer some sort of crippling wound that would prevent you from producing your natural commodity, so I feel that balances out.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Which is exactly why I suggested Tenure, for the whole "can't be fired from" bit. Well, technically you can be fired from a job with Tenure, but then you could suffer some sort of crippling wound that would prevent you from producing your natural commodity, so I feel that balances out.

But you don't need Tenure, is my point, with a "freelance" job. If you're self-employed, no one can fire you. Tenure's benefit is that even if you spend your entire month doing nothing job-related, you still have a job and a salary. With this setup, in contrast, if you spend the whole month doing nothing job-related, you don't get paid.

[(E)]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Which is exactly why I suggested Tenure, for the whole "can't be fired from" bit. Well, technically you can be fired from a job with Tenure, but then you could suffer some sort of crippling wound that would prevent you from producing your natural commodity, so I feel that balances out.

Not quite, in the case of milk (but not spider silk) if you stop harvesting the milk production stops until the next pregnancy.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Tenure's benefit is that even if you spend your entire month doing nothing job-related, you still have a job and a salary. With this setup, in contrast, if you spend the whole month doing nothing job-related, you don't get paid.

I've always assumed you don't get paid if you don't work your Tenured job, it's just that you don't have any fear of being fired for not working. If that's not the case, then Tenure is rather superior to Independent Income - [5] in Independent Income gets you 5% of your starting wealth each month, while Tenure [5] gets you 10% of your starting wealth plus Cost of Living each month. A quick search didn't bring up anything official - I'll shoot a PM to Kromm and PK to see if I can get an official answer, rather than clogging up this thread with a derailing debate.

Originally Posted by (E)

Not quite, in the case of milk (but not spider silk) if you stop harvesting the milk production stops until the next pregnancy.

Low profit, and extra finicky. Yeah, milk wasn't a very good example.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I've always assumed you don't get paid if you don't work your Tenured job, it's just that you don't have any fear of being fired for not working. If that's not the case, then Tenure is rather superior to Independent Income - [5] in Independent Income gets you 5% of your starting wealth each month, while Tenure [5] gets you 10% of your starting wealth plus Cost of Living each month. A quick search didn't bring up anything official - I'll shoot a PM to Kromm and PK to see if I can get an official answer, rather than clogging up this thread with a derailing debate.

I'd like to see the response when you get it, but I'll point out that Tenure does say "...your employment and salary are guaranteed for life" (emphasis mine). I'd say the difference between Tenure and Independent Income is that a) II is not linked to Wealth, so it's more valuable to a low-Wealth character, and b) while you can miss a month or two or more with Tenure, eventually you'll fall into the "extraordinary misbehavior" category. Or just actually do "extraordinary misbehavior" on its own - it's remarkable how often PCs seem to get up to that.