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Old 07-10-2018, 07:22 PM   #11
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: New Followers / Monster Followers

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Originally Posted by ecz View Post
Anyway I do not see how the game improves with the elimination of two talents. At worst they are left unused in the manual, but they do not hurt and do not disturb.
My concern is mainly new GMs expecting the rules to work well as written like they mostly do, but then a PC wants to take over powerful NPCs with this, use them for fodder or to get them killed to loot them, replaces them to fill his stable in every town, etc. It at least wants some note about what the limits should be.

ST 9
DX 9 armor
IQ 14
Charisma (2), New Followers (2), Monster Followers II (2 + 2), Tactics (1), Master Physicker (2 + 2)

Beginning character starts in a town, spends a couple of days wandering about looking for the best NPCs to make friends. Then spends time making friends with them, making 4/IQ rolls until he has 7 more characters to run. Likely to work on various monsters too.

If GM'd well, it actually sounds like a cool/fun strategy to me, and is actually like what my players have often done (one party had about 20 NPC followers/allies at one point.), but not if done with a simple 4/IQ mechanic regardless of who you're enlisting. The problem is the unqualified "you can roll 4/IQ to take over anyone of your race and make them your character" mechanic, with no tips for new GMs about limits or ways to make that interesting and logical and not unlimited/gamey.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:15 PM   #12
Oneiros
 
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Default Re: New Followers / Monster Followers

My college campaign did see New Followers used, as one player (Capt. Darvos) was intent on building an army to conquer a particular kingdom.

After a certain point, though, due to the limitations of the talent (see below), we sort of played it by ear, including, I believe, liberal interpretation of the Strategist talent. (I think. It was a long time ago.) The rest of the party were okay with being sort of "free" followers of Darvos, taking on more special forces type missions.

Um, Howitzer? :

New Followers does have a sort of "hidden rule" in it regarding trained animals:

"A figure may have only as many followers and/or trained animals as HALF his IQ, rounded down."

Even if New Followers is dropped, if there is a still to be a limit on trained animals, it should be included in the related section. Trained animals were also popular in my old campaign (Capt. Darvos had a war horse, of course, of course).

Personally, I think the Monster Followers rule for basing number of followers on the creatures' ST should be applied to trained animals. I might change the formula to: animal's ST/5 (round up), up to the character's IQ. Roughly the same as ST/10 up to 1/2 IQ, but does away with the big gap in a ST 10 vs ST 19 animal companion.

Last edited by Oneiros; 07-10-2018 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:22 PM   #13
luguvalium
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: New Followers / Monster Followers

I don't recall using New Followers and Monster Followers, so I won't mind seeing them go. However, having the ability to have followers ( and trained animals) can be useful. Describing a method of using other talents, like Charisma, Sex Appeal, or Bard to convince NPCs to join you would be useful.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:28 PM   #14
ak_aramis
 
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Default Re: New Followers / Monster Followers

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Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
I think John B has the best strategic solution here.

If you need the space, imho, these are two good talents to reclaim the remnant space from; and then possibly bringing them back in a later supplement where the acquisition and retention of loyal minions and monsters - where the *how* to properly apply these specific talents can be illustrated through an adventure - as part of a larger plot. This could be a great way to re-introduce them, while teaching their proper application through play.

Furthermore, I would say that if an engaging adventure could not be written around the use of these talents, *that* alone would be the best test of surety in proving that these two talents are indeed deadwood.

I think John had a great suggestion, while satisfying your immediate goal.

JK
I want them retained, as I see them as non-bogus and quite useful in a specific set of circumstances; they are a good mechanical fit to the name "Mesmerism" rather than "New Followers" and "Mesmerize Animals" instead of "Monster Followers"...

Putting them into "Supplement 1: Optional Rules" would be a good enough solution for me, provided it's either inexpensive or part of the KS Stretch Goals.

(KS for SJG very often seems to be a "License for SJG to print money"... I know it's not, because SJ does NOT price for all the market will bear. And it's quite appreciated, and been historic as well as current. Rest assured, Mr. Jackson, we do notice it, and we do appreciate it. Especially the GURPS fans.)
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:57 PM   #15
Jim Kane
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Default Re: New Followers / Monster Followers

Here's a question which occurred to me, while driving home from dinner out with friends this evening (funny what a belly full of all-you-can eat pasta will make you think about):

"If you were GM'ing a player with a "Dorothy" type character, would you consider The Wizard of Oz, by L. Frank Baum (1856-1919), to be an adventure in which her "New Followers" talent played a key role in your refereeing the actions of the other key-NPC's (i.e. Lion, Tin Woodsman, and Scarecrow) ?

And if so, how so?

Thoughts?

JK
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:53 PM   #16
John Brinegar
 
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Default Re: New Followers / Monster Followers

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Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
Here's a question which occurred to me, while driving home from dinner out with friends this evening (funny what a belly full of all-you-can eat pasta will make you think about):

"If you were GM'ing a player with a "Dorothy" type character, would you consider The Wizard of Oz, by L. Frank Baum (1856-1919), to be an adventure in which her "New Followers" talent played a key role in your refereeing the actions of the other key-NPC's (i.e. Lion, Tin Woodsman, and Scarecrow) ?

And if so, how so?

Thoughts?

JK
If I were GMing a player with a Dorothy-type character, we would probably not be playing TFT. :)

In a more serious vein, the way Dorothy attracts the Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, and Cowardly Lion is a potential example of how New Followers might work (a suggestion of companionship that is taken up more fervently than might be expected, and that results in unusual devotion to the suggester).
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:05 AM   #17
JLV
 
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Default Re: New Followers / Monster Followers

I'm not entirely sure that's a valid consideration. If I recall correctly, each of the "new followers" she acquired went along with her for their own reasons (and benefit); the Cowardly Lion wanted courage, the Scarecrow wanted brains, and the Tin Man wanted a heart. That sounds to me more like gathering quest companions (additional PCs) who accompany someone who tells them where they can find a quest object (in this case, the Wizard of Oz) who can fulfill their desires, not the gathering of subordinates totally and exclusively dedicated to her cause.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:24 AM   #18
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: New Followers / Monster Followers

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I'm not entirely sure that's a valid consideration. If I recall correctly, each of the "new followers" she acquired went along with her for their own reasons (and benefit); the Cowardly Lion wanted courage, the Scarecrow wanted brains, and the Tin Man wanted a heart. That sounds to me more like gathering quest companions (additional PCs) who accompany someone who tells them where they can find a quest object (in this case, the Wizard of Oz) who can fulfill their desires, not the gathering of subordinates totally and exclusively dedicated to her cause.
If it were Gollum, though, I don't think they would have joined.

I think the most effective leaders inspire their followers to act with their own initiative and take on the cause(s) as their own.

Although I'm a programmer, I've participated in product sales for our company in the past and what Dorothy did could be considered sales. Here's a spot I just found from a page on "how to find a sales champion" for selling into an organization and I think there's a lot of overlap with Dorothy gaining companions:

Quote:
If your product would work well for the company, now is the time to convince your champion. Some tips for doing so include:
  • Making it easy to grasp what your company does, and what you offer
  • Explaining how your product can quickly solve the prospectís specific business challenges
  • Sharing why and how other companies use the product, and draw parallels
In order to transform someone into a champion, they must feel a real passion for your product in order to fight for it. If they understand the product fully and see the business value, you have a true champion on your hands.
You could say that Dorothy "educated the potential customers" about the Wizard and convinced them that it was actually in their own best interest to "buy into her cause".
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:36 AM   #19
JLV
 
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Default Re: New Followers / Monster Followers

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If it were Gollum, though, I don't think they would have joined.
That's a false comparison though -- Gollum wouldn't have been helpfully telling them where they could go to find answers to their problems, he would have been knifing them in the back to see what they had in their wallets...
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:39 AM   #20
zot
 
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Default Re: New Followers / Monster Followers

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That's a false comparison though -- Gollum wouldn't have been helpfully telling them where they could go to find answers to their problems, he would have been knifing them in the back to see what they had in their wallets...
That's kind of my point though. The helpful way Dorothy told them where they could go to find answers is New Followers in action...
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