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Old 07-06-2018, 08:31 PM   #21
ak_aramis
 
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Default Re: Suggested Stretch Goals from Sweden

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Originally Posted by tomc View Post
Flat counters feel very "TFT" to me, and I could never get enough. A bestiary with a counter for every entry would be awesome, with multiples where it makes sense (rats, wolves, tuskadillos, etc.)
Seconding this. Good counters are a great bonus.

I'd also mention that counter-fonts are also a nifty - print only what you need when you need it. Flats and sandwich boards both.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:51 AM   #22
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Default Re: Suggested Stretch Goals from Sweden

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Originally Posted by GlennDoren View Post
Agreed--a Gloomhaven-style product would be a big undertaking, and no doubt would be a "2nd wave" product if part of the first kickstarter. BUT... I think if such a thing was part of the kickstarter, it would add a LOT of additional momentum to the KS.
That sounds like an expansion all its own that would require months of design work and playtest. Also: Sounds like it could be fun.
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:02 AM   #23
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Default Re: Suggested Stretch Goals from Sweden

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennDoren View Post
Agreed--a Gloomhaven-style product would be a big undertaking, and no doubt would be a "2nd wave" product if part of the first kickstarter. BUT... I think if such a thing was part of the kickstarter, it would add a LOT of additional momentum to the KS.
That sounds like an expansion all its own that would require months of design work and playtest. Also: Sounds like it could be fun.
Totally!

After I played a session of Goomhaven (dungeon part only), my friends asked me for my impressions and as I thought about it, I realized that the combat would have been way more fun with TFT rules instead of the card system they have.
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:40 AM   #24
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Default Re: Suggested Stretch Goals from Sweden

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Originally Posted by philreed View Post
That sounds like an expansion all its own that would require months of design work and playtest. Also: Sounds like it could be fun.
Yep--completely agree. But TFT is ideally suited for something like this, and since Gloomhaven/KD:M/7th Continent have proven the demand, why not? :)

Just knowing it's on the SJG "maybe" radar now makes me happy.
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:22 AM   #25
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Default Re: Suggested Stretch Goals from Sweden

Re flat counters:

I agree that flat counters are very TFT.

Another bonus to these:

If the counters are flat, and if the hexes they're designed for are 1" hexes, and if they'll be available for separate purchase (not just as part of the Kickstarter)...

...they'll be a new product not just for TFT players but also GURPS and Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game players.

Both of those games demonstrate combat in their rulebooks using flat figures, including multi-hex, top-down animal/monster figures, just like old-fashioned TFT. Yet SJG only sells stand-up Cardboard Heroes figures for GURPS, and even includes the same with Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game. That's no real problem where 1-hex figures are concerned, but for big monsters and animals, the games' stand-up figures don't map to the diagrams shown in the books. Sure, GMs can make do, but the mismatch between the games' flat counters and the provided stand-up counters is an oddity.

So, the suggestion in a nutshell: Use flat 1" hex-scale counters for TFT, and make the counters available as a standalone product. Poof, SJG gains a product that it can also offer to GURPS and Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game players who want to use the sort of counters that their books actually describe.

Any merit in that? Drawbacks?
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Old 07-07-2018, 11:31 AM   #26
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Default Re: Suggested Stretch Goals from Sweden

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomc View Post
Flat counters feel very "TFT" to me, and I could never get enough. A bestiary with a counter for every entry would be awesome, with multiples where it makes sense (rats, wolves, tuskadillos, etc.)
Oooh! I SO second this motion! In fact, we're back to the point where I would cheerfully incorporate my soul and give 40% of the stock to SJG if you do this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone View Post
Re flat counters:

I agree that flat counters are very TFT.

Another bonus to these:

If the counters are flat, and if the hexes they're designed for are 1" hexes, and if they'll be available for separate purchase (not just as part of the Kickstarter)...

...they'll be a new product not just for TFT players but also GURPS and Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game players.

Both of those games demonstrate combat in their rulebooks using flat figures, including multi-hex, top-down animal/monster figures, just like old-fashioned TFT. Yet SJG only sells stand-up Cardboard Heroes figures for GURPS, and even includes the same with Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game. That's no real problem where 1-hex figures are concerned, but for big monsters and animals, the games' stand-up figures don't map to the diagrams shown in the books. Sure, GMs can make do, but the mismatch between the games' flat counters and the provided stand-up counters is an oddity.

So, the suggestion in a nutshell: Use flat 1" hex-scale counters for TFT, and make the counters available as a standalone product. Poof, SJG gains a product that it can also offer to GURPS and Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game players who want to use the sort of counters that their books actually describe.

Any merit in that? Drawbacks?
What tbone said -- I LOVE the idea of dual use items like this -- not only because it gets me more counters and maps for TFT, but because it both makes it more likely SJG will do something like this, and also because it expands the possibilities for DF and GURPS in general...

Last edited by JLV; 07-07-2018 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 07-07-2018, 11:46 AM   #27
Rick_Smith
 
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Default Re: Suggested Stretch Goals from Sweden

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone View Post
... I agree that flat counters are very TFT.

Another bonus to these:

If the counters are flat, and if the hexes they're designed for are 1" hexes, and if they'll be available for separate purchase (not just as part of the Kickstarter). ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
Oooh! I SO second this motion! In fact, we're back to the point where I would cheerfully incorporate my soul and give 40% of the stock to SJG if you do this!
l...
Hi Everyone,
I totally agree with tbone and JLV above.

I suggest that the 23 mm hexes from MELEE and WIZARD are changed to 25mm hexes. (This will make the hexes fit better for those using miniatures, and match GURPS: Dungeon Fantasy product.)

Counters sheets with a bunch of cool monsters would be very attractive to me.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:15 PM   #28
ak_aramis
 
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Default Re: Suggested Stretch Goals from Sweden

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone View Post
Re flat counters:

I agree that flat counters are very TFT.

Another bonus to these:

If the counters are flat, and if the hexes they're designed for are 1" hexes, and if they'll be available for separate purchase (not just as part of the Kickstarter)...

...they'll be a new product not just for TFT players but also GURPS and Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game players.

Both of those games demonstrate combat in their rulebooks using flat figures, including multi-hex, top-down animal/monster figures, just like old-fashioned TFT. Yet SJG only sells stand-up Cardboard Heroes figures for GURPS, and even includes the same with Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game. That's no real problem where 1-hex figures are concerned, but for big monsters and animals, the games' stand-up figures don't map to the diagrams shown in the books. Sure, GMs can make do, but the mismatch between the games' flat counters and the provided stand-up counters is an oddity.

So, the suggestion in a nutshell: Use flat 1" hex-scale counters for TFT, and make the counters available as a standalone product. Poof, SJG gains a product that it can also offer to GURPS and Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game players who want to use the sort of counters that their books actually describe.

Any merit in that? Drawbacks?
Merit? Yes. Competition? Already established.

Pogs as character/monster tokens are making a comeback. They're very popular for Pathfinder (sets for a wide variety of things); not a few D&D 5 GM's use Pathfinder's pogs.

D&D uses cubes for 5E monsters. 1󪻑, 2󫎾, 4󫶘... Pathfinder sticks largely to square bases for big things.

I would expect many of the GURPS players who want tokens are using Pathfinder pogs.

Will T&T counters be competitive? Maybe.

They'll need to be durable stock - not the ~150 lb stock of yesteryear, but good cardboard like Pathfinder's. (Or Ogre's chipboard). Fiery dragon's for T&T 7 were a bit thin, but useable. Hard to pick up; but relatively decent otherwise.

And Fiery dragon is also still selling counters. My FLGS stocks Pathfinder, but not FDP.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:01 PM   #29
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Suggested Stretch Goals from Sweden

Yep, I've always preferred and used TFT style characters to miniatures or Cardboard Heroes, and have almost always used TFT-style counters in GURPS.

Even if I weren't into TFT, I would buy flat TFT style counters for use GURPS.

Flat counters are easier to use in actual play than miniatures or stand-up cardboard figures, especially when bodies fall, get stood upon, pigpile in HTH combat, etc.

It is also lovely that flat counters can be created extremely easily and cheaply by players/GMs. All you need is a square with a small picture on it - no painting, no rear view, no 3D object that takes up space and needs to be able to stand up. You can just take any figure picture that is a full-body view and shrink it to the right size, and you've got a usable counter.

A bestiary with full counter set would be awesome, and I'd buy it even just for the counters (unless it were all wacko creatures I wouldn't use in my games). There were not enough counters for everything in original TFT (especially missing were horses & other mounts).

And of course a cool 14-hex dragon would be sensational... as would more intermediate sizes, as would large dragon counters than can change shape a bit - it could be pretty spectacular and eye-catching / inspiring.

I think if you want to promote TFT, images of battles showing off maps & counters in interesting situations would go a long way to showing what's cool about TFT (i.e. battle situations where the maneuver/positions/map/situation are important and interesting and a large part of what play is about).
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Old 07-08-2018, 01:38 PM   #30
ak_aramis
 
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Default Re: Suggested Stretch Goals from Sweden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Yep, I've always preferred and used TFT style characters to miniatures or Cardboard Heroes, and have almost always used TFT-style counters in GURPS.

Even if I weren't into TFT, I would buy flat TFT style counters for use GURPS.

Flat counters are easier to use in actual play than miniatures or stand-up cardboard figures, especially when bodies fall, get stood upon, pigpile in HTH combat, etc.

It is also lovely that flat counters can be created extremely easily and cheaply by players/GMs. All you need is a square with a small picture on it - no painting, no rear view, no 3D object that takes up space and needs to be able to stand up. You can just take any figure picture that is a full-body view and shrink it to the right size, and you've got a usable counter.

A bestiary with full counter set would be awesome, and I'd buy it even just for the counters (unless it were all wacko creatures I wouldn't use in my games). There were not enough counters for everything in original TFT (especially missing were horses & other mounts).

And of course a cool 14-hex dragon would be sensational... as would more intermediate sizes, as would large dragon counters than can change shape a bit - it could be pretty spectacular and eye-catching / inspiring.

I think if you want to promote TFT, images of battles showing off maps & counters in interesting situations would go a long way to showing what's cool about TFT (i.e. battle situations where the maneuver/positions/map/situation are important and interesting and a large part of what play is about).
Articulated 7-hex dragon counters - a 4-hex front and a 4 hex rear, that articulate in the manner of Car Wars semis.
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