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Old 07-01-2018, 07:30 AM   #41
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: A different take on priests

A Mngineer example.
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Originally Posted by zot View Post
For Squatka, the Village Wise One, click the little arrow above this
Gootoh, Mngineer
ST 9
DX 13 (16 / 15)
IQ 14
MA 10

Talents
Acolyte (1)
Priest (2)
Theurgy 1 (2)
Theurgy 2 (1)
Theurgy 3 (1)
More Ceremonies (8)
Missile Weapons (3)
Thrown Weapons (2)
Bow (2)
First Aid (1)
Mechanician (2)

Equipment
Small bow: 1-1, twice a turn
Fine Elven chain: 3 hits -0 DX
Horse and wagon
Mngineer's Kit
Parts for each device + 2 extra clockwork wolves

Talisman Powers
Psytite Lock (always activated)
Heal
Psytital Exorcism

Ceremonies
Consecrate Talisman
Cosmic Healing
Object Reading
Mental Shield
Clockwork Creature
Wood-to-food Converter
Frenzied Bird
Dowsing
Baloon
Weight-reduction frame
Horseless wagon
Electrifier
Spider Grapnel
Door ram
??

Last edited by zot; 07-01-2018 at 07:36 AM. Reason: cross linking the Theurge examples
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Old 07-04-2018, 06:49 AM   #42
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Success rolls for ceremonial benefits

Making what I think is an important improvement:
  1. Ceremonies are still automatically successful, unless interrupted (like before)
  2. Activating the benefit from a ceremony requires the theurge to use an action and make a DX roll (this part is new)
Ceremonies will state what type of DX roll they need: thrown, missile, creation, special.

Failure is like a failed thrown spell, as with talismans, the theurge receives fatigue and falls down on an 18. The theurge is able to attempt activation later, which will consume another action.
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Old 07-08-2018, 03:41 PM   #43
Steve Jackson
President and EIC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: A different take on priests

I wrote to Bill today, after long thought -

It’s a catch-22. If we do only fantasy religions, we’re shortchanging the real ones, and if we do real ones, there is a huge possibility for offense. I have thought about it a lot and have not gotten past that conundrum.

. . . If we ever do an OGL, or even a collection of explictly “house” rules, maybe. But not as an official part of the system. I’ve thought about it since you first proposed it, and sought advice from within the company, and I don’t think we should add religious game mechanics.

He asked me to post this on the forum, and here it is - sj
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Old 07-08-2018, 04:01 PM   #44
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: A different take on priests

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Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
I wrote to Bill today, after long thought -

It’s a catch-22. If we do only fantasy religions, we’re shortchanging the real ones, and if we do real ones, there is a huge possibility for offense. I have thought about it a lot and have not gotten past that conundrum. ...
Hi Steve, everyone.
There is a long history of imaginary religions in Fantasy, I hardly think that avoiding real religions is short changing them. I would far prefer to not have real religions in a fantasy campaign.

That said, it is a big enough subject, that I am perfectly happy having it as an expansion to TFT later.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 07-08-2018, 05:00 PM   #45
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: A different take on priests

So this will remain an unofficial document for the foreseeable future. I really do like this religion system and I'd like to encourage other people to create their own religions. The two I have so far feel very different and the second one introduce a little rules subsystem for supernatural devices.

I'm hoping other people will make religions that feel radically different from these two.

If anyone writes up another religion, I'm happy to add a short description and a link to it to my doc. That'll keep your content yours and my content mine :).

The next religion I'm going to do, by the way, is a respectfully done dark ages version of Christianity. Which doesn't preclude other versions of Christianity, of course. Cidri is a big world.
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Old 07-08-2018, 05:21 PM   #46
JLV
 
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Far northern California
Default Re: A different take on priests

Actually, I think not posting specific religious rules is just fine.

Since Steve mentioned creating some kind of "karma" or "luck" mechanic, I think that could be parlayed that into a religious system all on it's own, and without substantively increasing the complexity of the existing rules.

In effect, just tie it to the Priest/Theologian skills and let the game develop from there... As far as what names anyone gives the religions, I'd say that depends entirely on the campaign style; paganism, medieval monotheism, renaissance-style religious schism, or whatever would dictate the nature of the God(s) and religious groups involved.

And, of course, you could always go with cultism as well (things man was not meant to know being worshiped in dark and dank places...)
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:02 AM   #47
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: A different take on priests

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And, of course, you could always go with cultism as well (things man was not meant to know being worshiped in dark and dank places...)
Did I mention that I also plan to make dark religions? I'm a huge fan of Lovecraft and Barron...
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:52 PM   #48
ak_aramis
 
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
Default Re: A different take on priests

The same arguments apply to TFT & to T&T: the lack of a system for fantasy religions is a problem for many.
  • It definitely makes crossovers with the Big Brand Games (we all know which 2) more of a problem.
  • It makes every group running it have to invent, adapt, or find on someone's website a set of mechanics; this means no uniformity.
  • Most GM's aren't competent as game designers. Most homebrew is bad juju. (Notably, several posters here are apparently competent - Ty, Rick, Skarg, SJ, AH, Guy...)

No uniformity, and no effective clerical magic, means few of the OGL guys doing adventures for the big ones are going to add on TFT.

Now, Real World Religions are a whole different mess... and why I didn't run Yrth back when I liked GURPS. While I found the real religions only mildly problematic, many of my players were more upset with it. (Most especially the militant atheist; who'd have guessed?) But, using a fantasy pantheon, they all accepted it. My Pendragon game, because it uses real religion, has in fact offended at least one non-player - it's a game at a public location (FLGS's back room).

For my D&D games, I've done up a pantheon, based upon ideas fronted by my players. Exceptionally silly stuff, and intentionally so. Be a decent 24pp 3rd party, if I found D&D 5E more robust about clerics (it was for AD&2E). I've used it in a few other games... I mean, when the God of War has a flaming mushroom as his holy symbol, and the god of Contemplation is also the god of hyperactivity, and the death god cleric can never tell if his spells will harm or hurt until he tries...

I'd love to see a consistent framework, and this is the best I've seen for TFT. Just put it in the "OPTIONAL RULES" section of the book. Or in "TFT 2E Supplement 1: Optional Rules for Various Occasions"...
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:16 AM   #49
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: A different take on priests

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Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
Now, Real World Religions are a whole different mess... and why I didn't run Yrth back when I liked GURPS. While I found the real religions only mildly problematic, many of my players were more upset with it. (Most especially the militant atheist; who'd have guessed?) But, using a fantasy pantheon, they all accepted it. My Pendragon game, because it uses real religion, has in fact offended at least one non-player - it's a game at a public location (FLGS's back room).
I have an explanation of what's going on behind theurgy that should keep the uncertainty level high enough to require just as much faith as religion requires now, despite the apparent confirmation it demonstrates.

I haven't typed it in yet. We'll see how it's received, but I think it should be just fine. It should satisfy both the faithful and the atheist.

Who knows, maybe Steve will even change his mind about including it as an official part of the system -- I've seen him change his mind on the forums within the past week or two!

Either way though, this system is too fun to chuck... I've been having loads of fun with my mngineer making tons of temporary gadgets that function like magic items!

Last edited by zot; 07-11-2018 at 09:18 AM. Reason: fix parsing error
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:24 AM   #50
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Real religions in fantasy games.

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Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
... Now, Real World Religions are a whole different mess... and why I didn't run Yrth back when I liked GURPS. ...
Hi ak_aramis, everyone.
I totally agree. Having real religions in Yrth was enough of a turn off, that I knew at once I would not use that campaign setting. On one hand it seemed lazy, and on the other I didn't want the baggage of real religions intruding on my game.

If the Priests of Earwinashwail preach love - but act like selfish, evil, bigots... no one cares.

Warm regards, Rick
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