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Old 06-22-2018, 08:03 PM   #21
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Play test report

My friend are play testing priests -- I have a Village Wise One and he has an unarmed combat artist, using some of Rick Smith's house rules.

I modified the Village Wise One talisman a bit, realizing that the priest, with IQ 14, would probably not make a good melee fighter but potentially could be a decent ranged fighter. I changed the talisman's "Wither" power (thanks to Steve Jackson for suggesting that name instead of "smite") to be ranged, running from sling damage to light crossbow, based on priest level. The priest gets the higher firing rate, regardless of DX. I felt the slow advancement rate, high IQ, and high talent point requirements justified it. Also, I changed Avert Beast or Monster to be just Avert.

During combat, I ended up not using Wither nearly as much as I thought I would. We decided to test with two 36-point characters, using the common house ruled number of talent points, IQ + (ST + DX) / 2.

Avert turned out to be MUCH more powerful than I imagined. The fighter would initiate HTH with an enemy, then the priest would use avert on the enemy. From that point on, the enemy would have to attempt to disengage with a 4/DX roll, each turn. If unsuccessful, the enemy would have to try again next turn. If successful, the fighter would initiate HTH combat again. This locked the enemy into a lose-a-turn loop.

There was usually more than one enemy, of course. It wasn't easy, but it was very tactical. Playing the priest showed me how well a TFT wizard can be a "battlefield controller". Last session, I played a Mngineer and their specialty is Freeze, which had a similar effect. I don't remember running combats nearly as tactically back in high school in the early 80s. Go figure...

The dynamics of priests in combat is quite different from wizards. They don't have to worry about resource management very much but talisman effects last just a couple turns and there are only around four talisman powers to choose from (if that). Where a wizard's Freeze lasts 2 dice turns, a Mngineer's Psytite Lock and a Village Wise One's Avert last only 1-3 turns, depending on priest level. A wizard can do other things while maintaining continuing effects but a priest has to use actions to refresh their effects when they threaten to expire after 1-3 turns, so a priest with Theologian 4 can normally have at most 3 things going at once, fewer for less experienced priests.

By the way, my friend suggested reskinning the Village Wise One as a Paladin for the purpose of the story and it ended up fitting really well! It makes me think that the Christian religion is going to turn out nicely.
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:04 PM   #22
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: A different take on priests

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
I'm figuring the daily power output of a wizard might be roughly 24-40 ST (recover 8 during sleep and 16-32 during 4-8 potential rest hours per day).
* Why would sleep only recover 8 ST, when the recovery rate for resting while awake is 4/hour?

* Why would there only be 4-8 potential rest hours per day?
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Old 06-28-2018, 07:13 PM   #23
Oneiros
 
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Default Re: Play test report

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
My friend are play testing priests -- I have a Village Wise One and he has an unarmed combat artist, using some of Rick Smith's house rules.
I'd be curious to see an example of one of your priests (maybe not the one with additional house rules). Could you perhaps post one for this thread?
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Old 06-29-2018, 02:34 AM   #24
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: A different take on priests

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
* Why would sleep only recover 8 ST, when the recovery rate for resting while awake is 4/hour?

* Why would there only be 4-8 potential rest hours per day?
Since you can't cast during your sleep hours you can normally only recover the ST you spent before you went to sleep, which is why I'm saying "8" for that. My power estimates are conservative and use ST 10 as a reasonable strength for a wizard. Casting down to ST 2 only allows a ST 10 wizard to recover 8 of those potential 32 ST during a sleep of 8 hours. The Catnap Sleeper talent lets a wizard access the full 32 ST but a normal wizard can't do that.

One important point of these estimates is that they are trying to be reasonable but conservative, erring on the side of less available ST. I'm using these to try to set the power level of priests and I don't want the numbers to be higher than reasonable.

The 4-8 potential rest hours are based on how heavy the adventuring is. I have the full notes here. If a wizard isn't adventuring at all and only casting spells that amount to a few minutes during a day, they could combine that casting with a full 16 hours of rest and then cast down to ST 2 right before sleeping for maximum power output.

I made the power estimates in order to try to gauge roughly how much ST a ceremonies or talisman power should be "worth". My goals with talisman powers are to let priests:
  • Hold their own in combat without outshining heroes
  • Do supernatural things in combat without outshining heroes

My goals with the ceremonies are similar -- ceremonies can be fairly powerful but they shouldn't make priests more powerful than wizards.

Besides being roughly as powerful, ST-wise as magic, talismans and ceremonies are a lot less flexible than magic and this is also an important factor in setting the power level of the effects.

Talismans have only 4 different powers, so that makes them way less versatile than spells. There are quite a few ceremonies but you can perform them at appointed times, pretty much maxing out at 5 ceremonies / day. More powerful ceremonies like revival and powerful summoning can only be done less frequently, like on a full or new moon.
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Old 06-29-2018, 02:53 AM   #25
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Play test report

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Originally Posted by Oneiros View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
My friend are play testing priests -- I have a Village Wise One and he has an unarmed combat artist, using some of Rick Smith's house rules.
I'd be curious to see an example of one of your priests (maybe not the one with additional house rules). Could you perhaps post one for this thread?
I worded that badly. I'm the only one with a priest. Here he is (and I see that he has one more talent point left to use!). The Village Wise One writeup is here, btw. The "elven chain" is fine armor from Rick Smith's house rules that doesn't reduce DX or MA (I think the cost was $1350).

Squatka (36 points, 24 talent points from IQ + (ST + DX) / 2)
ST 8
DX 15 (18)
IQ 13
MA 12

First Aid (1)
Physicker (1)
Master Physicker (2)
Priest 1 (2)
Priest 2 (2)
Priest 3 (2)
Priest 4 (2)
Charisma (1)
Courtly Graces (1)
Missile Weapons (3)
Thrown Weapons (2)
Horsemanship (1)
Tactics (1)
Running (2)

Talisman melee: 2, ranged: 2 or 1+2 twice per turn

Elven chain: 3 hits -0 DX, -0 MA

Various ceremonies (I didn't feel like typing in 20 ceremony names)

Last edited by zot; 06-29-2018 at 02:57 AM. Reason: fixing character errors
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Old 06-29-2018, 07:42 AM   #26
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: Play test report

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
... The "elven chain" is fine armor from Rick Smith's house rules that doesn't reduce DX or MA (I think the cost was $1350). ...
Hi all, Zot.
Zot, the Elven Chainmail stops 2 hits, and gives you -2 DX and -1 MA. Now, all of the chainmail types in my campaign stop one less point of damage verses stilettos and impairing weapons, but that is more complex that I want to discuss in these forums.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:30 AM   #27
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Play test report

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi all, Zot.
Zot, the Elven Chainmail stops 2 hits, and gives you -2 DX and -1 MA. Now, all of the chainmail types in my campaign stop one less point of damage verses stilettos and impairing weapons, but that is more complex that I want to discuss in these forums.

Warm regards, Rick.
Please note the word "fine" and the price :)
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:50 AM   #28
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: Play test report

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
Please note the word "fine" and the price :)
Hi Zot.
Oops, sorry! My mistake.
Warm regards, Rick
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:54 AM   #29
zot
 
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Hi Zot.
Oops, sorry! My mistake.
Warm regards, Rick
No problem :).

So, I figured it was more than reasonable for a 36-point character to have a $1350 suit of armor. But I haven't played TFT in a looooong time. What do you think?
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:04 AM   #30
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: Play test report

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No problem :).

So, I figured it was more than reasonable for a 36-point character to have a $1350 suit of armor. But I haven't played TFT in a looooong time. What do you think?
Hi Zot,
I've adjusted the TFT economy so that wages are less, and the price of most common items is less. But metal items and magic stay the same. So $1350 for a early to mid level character seems a bit rich to me. But one thing I have learned is if a PC can pay for better armour they will do so, so it is hardly surprising that they would spring for the best armour they can.

Warm regards, Rick.
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