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Old 05-31-2018, 05:13 AM   #11
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: A different take on priests

Excellent. I think Steve needs you on board as his religious advisor!

Seriously, I know some long term players don't want any sort of priestly magic in TFT but I've always felt the opposite coming from a background of D&D and Runequest. Your ideas allow for some of the depth of Divine Magic seen in Runequest which can only help to make the fantasy world richer and generate more story ideas.

I hope something along these lines is included in the TFT reboot, even if only as a set of optional rules. I'd stayed away from commenting on Priestly Magic as my own ideas have changed over time, but your rules are by far the best I've seen.

Well done.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:48 AM   #12
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: A different take on priests

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
Excellent. I think Steve needs you on board as his religious advisor!

Seriously, I know some long term players don't want any sort of priestly magic in TFT but I've always felt the opposite coming from a background of D&D and Runequest. Your ideas allow for some of the depth of Divine Magic seen in Runequest which can only help to make the fantasy world richer and generate more story ideas.

I hope something along these lines is included in the TFT reboot, even if only as a set of optional rules. I'd stayed away from commenting on Priestly Magic as my own ideas have changed over time, but your rules are by far the best I've seen.

Well done.
Thanks very much,

It certainly sounds like I'm achieving the goals I set out with for the system. I was a big fan of Runequest back in the day but I haven't played it since mid 80s. Even so, I think I can see some influence in the Village Wise Ones. After they're fleshed out, I'd like to do something with a less "tribal" feel, maybe work on Mnorenism and give that a sort of new age, human potential feel...

And I'd love it if this became part of the TFT reboot!
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:48 AM   #13
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: A different take on priests

The next religion: I wanted a contrast to the very tribal feel of the Village Wise Ones and I think I have gone about as far as I can from them with this one (which I think might also fit well into Cidri and SJ Games in general)...

Mngineers

You are a Mngineer, which means you venerate the Mnoren, the creators of Cidri, and you seek to emulate them by learning secret knowledge and practicing secret techniques. You probably found out about Mngineering at one of the Mechanician’s Guild meetings, when a Mngineer approached you and sold you a device. Mngineering is expensive because, well obviously, there’s a direct correlation between how much money one spends on Mngineering and one’s dedication.

You are not actually a priest, because Mngineering is not a religion, it is a state of illumination. You have simply rid your body of vast numbers of spiritual parasites, the “psytites” that cloud the minds of normal people or “Draps” as they are called among the illuminated, and now you can tap into the collective unconsciousness. You are well on your way to achieving your fully self-actualized potential. On the way to full Illumination. When enough people on Cidri are fully illuminated, the Mnoren will make themselves known again. Which is important because the world will end very soon if they don’t. Which is why, obviously, you keep trying to persuade Draps to become Mngineers.

You are happy to aid other people by using your equipment to “defest” them and temporarily give them advantages or heal their ills, for a customary nominal fee. Unfortunately, Draps rapidly “fest” and gain new psytites because they do not have access to the secret teachings of Mngineering. But you are not allowed to impart this knowledge; they are not illuminated and even if they could understand it (which they could not), they would misuse it and bring the world nearer to destruction.

To aid you in your pursuits, you have a collection of artifacts that focus and amplify your mind, allow you to peer into the “world behind”, etc. In fact, you know secret techniques to construct them from surprisingly common items. You also know ceremonies to locate, operate, and destroy artifacts and even produce temporary artifacts.

Your talisman is a metal rod which you connect to your equipment during ceremonies. You can actually consecrate any metal rod but the more dedicated priests have very expensive, intricately carved rods.

Note: you must have the Mechanician talent to be a Mngineer.

Last edited by zot; 05-31-2018 at 06:51 AM. Reason: typeos
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Old 05-31-2018, 08:14 AM   #14
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Write up the the Mngineers.

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
The next religion: I wanted a contrast to the very tribal feel of the Village Wise Ones ...

Mngineers ...[/B]
Hi Zot,
Is this a full write up? You had talked about your clerics getting Ceremonies which were magical powers which took too long to use in combat (which I thought was a cool idea). But I notice that this religion does not get any. Was that deliberate?

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:07 AM   #15
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Write up the the Mngineers.

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Zot,
Is this a full write up? You had talked about your clerics getting Ceremonies which were magical powers which took too long to use in combat (which I thought was a cool idea). But I notice that this religion does not get any. Was that deliberate?

Warm regards, Rick.
I'm only just starting on it. The document is here and I have fleshed out a bunch of stuff for the Village Wise Ones. I'll be fleshing out the Mngineers shortly!
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:37 PM   #16
JLV
 
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Location: Far northern California
Default Re: A different take on priests

I sure hope Steve is watching this thread! I'm really liking where this is going!
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Old 06-03-2018, 02:14 PM   #17
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: A different take on priests

Does anyone feel like play testing either (or both) of the two religions I have?

I'll be trying as well but I sure would appreciate the help.

Sheesh, I'm up to 16 pages of content now (with some page breaks). I'm planning to finish fleshing out these two before starting on more (I think two is probably enough to test with and I also think they're pretty dissimilar).

Also, I welcome suggestions for improving what I have so far!
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Old 06-03-2018, 04:51 PM   #18
Jim Kane
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: A different take on priests

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
Does anyone feel like play testing either (or both) of the two religions I have?

I'll be trying as well but I sure would appreciate the help.
Zot, can you outline for us, specifically:
  • Which specific aspect(s) of your work you think we might be able to help you with?
  • Why you feel the given aspect(s) needs help?
  • How, and in What form, you would prefer to receive our help?
  • Where would you like to end-up with this as a stated goal?
I think that would allow some of us to better gauge if we feel we might be able to offer any meaningful and accurate service to you; or not.

Thanks,

JK
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Old 06-04-2018, 09:46 AM   #19
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: A different take on priests

Hi Jim,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
Zot, can you outline for us, specifically:
  • Which specific aspect(s) of your work you think we might be able to help you with?
  • Why you feel the given aspect(s) needs help?
  • How, and in What form, you would prefer to receive our help?
  • Where would you like to end-up with this as a stated goal?
I think that would allow some of us to better gauge if we feel we might be able to offer any meaningful and accurate service to you; or not.

Thanks,

JK
Reading this makes me think it's probably better to start with discussion and then move on to play testing later.

One metric I'm using is these rough Priest - Wizard equivalences:

Priest 1: IQ 12 Wizard (I know Priest is IQ 9 but this is how I think of it)
Theologian: IQ 14 Wizard
Theologian 2: IQ 16 Wizard
Theologian 3: IQ 18 Wizard
Theologian 4: IQ 20 Wizard

I'm figuring the daily power output of a wizard might be roughly 24-40 ST (recover 8 during sleep and 16-32 during 4-8 potential rest hours per day).

While creating the ceremonies, I've been estimating maybe 4 ST per ceremony for a level 1 priest and more for higher levels and I'm guessing that priests will generally miss at least 1 appointed time per day, maybe 2. If they generally get to use all 5, then the average power output (based on wizard power output) should probably be 4-8 ST per ceremony. If they normally get to do 3 ceremonies per day, the expected power output should probably be 7-13 ST per ceremony.

I'm guessing priests will be able to average 3.5 ceremonies per day in a labyrinth, so maybe a rough power output of 10 ST per ceremony would be fair. I think. Maybe.

A buff of +1 ST/DX/IQ would be like 3 Aid spells lasting for 6 turns (I'm guessing the average combat lasts less than 6 turns but I could be wrong -- my last play test of Dark City's Orcs starter adventure bore that out though). So a +5 buff would be like 15 ST in Aid spells.

Of course wizards are occupied by their spell casting during combat and priests are not occupied by their ceremonies during combat. I think the fact that wizards are much more versatile balances this out, though: priests have to perform their ceremonies well in advance, with much less knowledge because a wizard can choose not to continue aiding another character and use their spells for something else.

Here are some things I'm wondering about:
  • Are my power output guesses for wizards reasonable?

  • Is my guess of 3.5 ceremonies per day reasonable or will priests generally get 5?

  • Is 5 the right number of appointed times per day?

  • Is 3 IQ too cheap for access to talismans and ceremonies?

    Do priests need extra limitations besides just the talent costs?

    Mngineers are required to have Mechanician, so it costs 5 IQ for them. Should 2 more IQ in talents be standard for every religion? This feels like it might be a good requirement, so that priests of a particular religion would share some distinguishing talent for their religion.

  • Is the Village Wise One's talisman power, "Fierce Aura" over powered?

    It only lasts for one turn and to maintain it, the priest must use the power again, devoting their actions to that.

    It's a riff off of the Sanctuary cleric spell but the saving throw increases with Priest level. It's nice to have some difference in effect based on priest level. This is the only one I could think of but is 5 dice vs IQ excessive for essentially a 20 IQ wizard power that costs 1 or 2 ST?

    Would it be better just to make Avert Beast a regular avert and allow the priest to choose an adjacent subject for it (i.e. the attacker must move away from the guy next to you)?

  • Do the group sizes feel right?

    I've messed with them a lot. Right now they go from 3 (Priest) to 7 (Theologian 4). Removing thrown spells from 7 people is a power output of 14 ST.

    At one point I had them go from 4-34. I like the idea of a high priest affecting a large group, like all the men from a tiny village, it's very cinematic but is it over powered?

These are the issues that stand out to me right now. I'm sure there are more. :)

Last edited by zot; 06-04-2018 at 09:48 AM. Reason: arithmetic
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Old 06-07-2018, 04:01 AM   #20
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: A different take on priests

I made a designer's notes document with a lot of tables for things like average daily power output for wizards and expected ST battery values. I'd very much appreciate it if some people reviewed that to see how it lines up with their experience.

Also, I revised the Mngineers, taking out possible connections to Scientology. It was insensitive of me to spoof them and I'm thankful to JLV for calling me out on that. Mngineers didn't really change that much. Now they are sort of a mashup of Western Occultism, Ghost Busters, and multilevel marketing.
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