Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-12-2018, 03:37 AM   #141
Jim Kane
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: New Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
There's no attribute that represents willpower but we should have a way to represent it for situations like that, a decent way to represent resisting fear, etc.
I think in keeping with the more immediate nature (I resist the word: simple) of TFT, if it were physical torture... I mean Physically Enhanced Interrogation, I might have them simply save verses ST; and for Psychological Interrogation, I might have them save versus IQ - modified by any applicable talents.

Or... perhaps in the case of generally resisting Interrogation Techniques, one might express the concept of *Willpower*, by adding ST and IQ together (averaging a 20 points total) and then, begin the process of resisting the interrogation at 3d6... then 4d6... then 5d6... until the character's will has been broken, or the Interrogation Technique has reached it's effective limit without breaking the subjects will.

And, Interrogation Technique would have to be defined by it's upper effective-limit in how many dice it requires to save against at maximum application.

Some Interrogation Techniques are decidedly less effective then others; as demonstrated Here

JK
Jim Kane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 03:46 AM   #142
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: New Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
I think in keeping with the more immediate nature (I resist the word: simple) of TFT, if it were physical torture... I mean Physically Enhanced Interrogation, I might have them simply save verses ST; and for Psychological Interrogation, I might have them save versus IQ - modified by any applicable talents.

Or... perhaps in the case of generally resisting Interrogation Techniques, one might express the concept of *Willpower*, by adding ST and IQ together (averaging a 20 points total) and then, begin the process of resisting the interrogation at 3d6... then 4d6... then 5d6... until the character's will has been broken, or the Interrogation Technique has reached it's effective limit without breaking the subjects will.
You could also argue that DX should also be included because it has a lot to do with concentration and focus.

I chose "the middle attribute" for things like will power because:
  • It requires no math
  • It's more or less like an average of the attributes but it requires no math
  • It has a lot more variance than the average of all three (which has very little variance)
  • Well balanced characters will do better than extreme specialist-attribute characters
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 03:48 AM   #143
JLV
 
JLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Far northern California
Default Re: New Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
One of the best examples of Intimidation I've seen in a movie, by the way, is in Unforgiven where Clint Eastwood's character clears out an entire room just by speaking in a reasonable manner. Nothing at all to do with ST.
Yes, but that had much more to do with his reputation, if memory serves. He already had a reputation as a "bad---" and people were afraid to challenge him because of that. This is another area that we don't really have any guidelines for in the RAW -- how reputation affects non-player perception, whether for good or ill. GURPS has these rules, but they are complex and would be way too much for core TFT, in my opinion.
JLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 03:58 AM   #144
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: New Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
Yes, but that had much more to do with his reputation, if memory serves. He already had a reputation as a "bad---" and people were afraid to challenge him because of that. This is another area that we don't really have any guidelines for in the RAW -- how reputation affects non-player perception, whether for good or ill. GURPS has these rules, but they are complex and would be way too much for core TFT, in my opinion.
For reputation, I'd just use a contest vs "the room". The GM would base the crowd's response on well you did.

Also, reputation involves more than just doing deeds. You have to make sure people talk you up -- The Name of the Wind has numerous examples of this, Kvothe is super competent but he's also a public relations expert.

This is why I listed Reputation as a category for talents. You get mechanical benefits in reputation contests but to make and maintain a reputation you have to invest time and effort, i.e. XP.

Last edited by zot; 07-12-2018 at 03:59 AM. Reason: clarification
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 11:41 AM   #145
Steve Jackson
President and EIC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: New Skills

So how would Reputation work? A sort of extra Charisma limited to situation that were relevant to the reputation and in a place where the character is known? I can see only a few reputations that might play to this: as a honest boss, as an effective agent, as a seriously formidable fighter or wizard, as a total crazy . . . Is there a different mechanic that would be simple and make sense?
Steve Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 12:35 PM   #146
Jim Kane
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: New Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
So how would Reputation work? A sort of extra Charisma limited to situation that were relevant to the reputation and in a place where the character is known? I can see only a few reputations that might play to this: as a honest boss, as an effective agent, as a seriously formidable fighter or wizard, as a total crazy . . . Is there a different mechanic that would be simple and make sense?
I am thinking more along the lines of being defined by a talent, rather than a stat. While we used a reputation rating to represent the *sphere of influence* a character exerted - based on reputation, and expressed in a radius of miles - emanating from the epicenter of their home-base or known familiar-locale if "traveling", it would probably be better to house this effect as a talent.

This would represent when NPCs would begin to hear rumors about *you*, and is the thing - as it grows - which attracts NPCs (those seeking employment, and enemies alike) to the PCs; in addition to modifying reaction rolls, up and down.

As a campaign-mechanic, we used it represent when the local government would begin to take notice of you and your doings, begin to consider you a potential political ally (or threat), when the Goblin King might send out an NPC adventure party out for your head, and essentially the same mechanic that attracted the dragon, Smaug, the horde of gold the Dwarves uneathed... as word spread.

As a direct TFT example, in Guy's GrailQuest, the PCs begin to hear rumors about the Black Knight of Lister Downs 5 days (?) travel from his castle; the *why* they hear about him 5 days travel from his epicenter - and not 6 or 8 - is a reflection (and reaction) to his reputation rating. And, if it gets higher, then the PCs would pick up rumors about him 9 days away, etc.

JK
Jim Kane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 12:50 PM   #147
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Intimidating a room

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
So how would Reputation work? A sort of extra Charisma limited to situation that were relevant to the reputation and in a place where the character is known? I can see only a few reputations that might play to this: as a honest boss, as an effective agent, as a seriously formidable fighter or wizard, as a total crazy . . . Is there a different mechanic that would be simple and make sense?
[Edited to change Reputation to Reputation (really bad dude)]

Here's how I'd do it (after considering some arguments on the forum)...

The Cast of Characters
Clint Westmeadow: Reputation (really bad dude), Charisma... 2 talents
Joe Saloon Patron: family person, just wants to be left alone, etc.... -1 talents
5 Bandits: tough guy, bandit, etc.... 1 talent

What happens
Clint's player: I want to intimidate the whole saloon and clear out as many people as possible using Reputation and Charisma. "All right, anyone who doesn't want to die needs to go home. I don't want to kill innocent people..."
GM: We'll use a one-roll contest since we all know that Clint's a man of few words (and many bullets)
GM: ok, roll 3 dice...
Clint's player: rolls 3 dice I succeeded by 4
GM: rolls SIX dice for the saloon patrons -- one roll for the whole group (1 extra for the negative position plus two more for Clint) The patrons all scoot
GM: rolls FOUR dice for each bandit (Clint's talents minus theirs yield one extra die) Three of the bandits draw their weapons but two of them run away. There might be a faint odor but it's too quick to really tell...

The base is 3 dice, less talents means more dice.

Last edited by zot; 07-12-2018 at 03:11 PM. Reason: enhancement
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 01:03 PM   #148
JLV
 
JLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Far northern California
Default Re: New Skills

I think the real problem is somehow "quantifying" the reputation. What is it that makes a reputation, and how much of a reputation do you get for doing something?

The secondary problem determining how a reputation affects the individual NPC -- e.g., a reputation as an incorruptible law officer would be a "bad" reputation if the NPC is a member of the Thieves' Guild, whereas it would be a "good" reputation for an honest merchant.
JLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 02:21 PM   #149
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: New Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
I think the real problem is somehow "quantifying" the reputation. What is it that makes a reputation, and how much of a reputation do you get for doing something?

The secondary problem determining how a reputation affects the individual NPC -- e.g., a reputation as an incorruptible law officer would be a "bad" reputation if the NPC is a member of the Thieves' Guild, whereas it would be a "good" reputation for an honest merchant.
Correct, positive reputations could count negatively in some circumstances. I think you need a phrase in parens after it, like mundane talents; let the player put whatever they want in there, subject to GM approval: Reputation (really bad dude), or Reputation (kindly monarch).

I'd say you don't get a certain amount of reputation for doing something, you just pay XP for the talent. The XP represents "doing enough" to earn the reputation; you spent as much time earning the reputation as you would for practicing for a skill.

Last edited by zot; 07-12-2018 at 02:23 PM. Reason: clarification
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 02:57 PM   #150
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Reputation - A skill???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
So how would Reputation work? ...
Hi Steve, everyone.
To me reputation should always come with two bits of information. What the reputation is and where it applies. Reputations in my game are always earned in play. Sometimes I will say to one of my players, "Make a note on your character: you have earned a reputation of discretion and tactfulness with the Ironband Dwarf clan."

This way the player can remind me of this months or years later when it applies.

Asking about reputation in this thread suggests that Steve is thinking of making it a talent. I'm not keen on this. But if I was going to go with the idea, I would say that the talent represents a knack for self promotion and self advertisement that communicates the sort of reputation you wish to project.

"Everything about that guy screamed cold blooded killer! I didn't want to mess with him!"

Such a reputation would travel with you, so you wouldn't have to write down where it applies.

I would consider NOT making this sort of thing a talent. Let us say that you spend 1,000 experience (XP) and can write down what sort of presence you want to project. Each player can have zero or one of these, 'attitudes'.

But I think the simplest rule is just say that they must be earned in play.

Warm regards, Rick.
Rick_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.