Low Tech Favorite Weapon

[DanHoward]

99% of situations don't require a weapon to resolve, so it doesn't make much sense to carry a cumbersome object around that won't see much use. Best to carry something that is more versatile. I've personally used a machete for clearing undergrowth, trimming a spear shaft, starting a fire, cooking food, scraping hot-plates, tightening a screw, dispatching game, chopping down a sapling, splitting bamboo, opening coconuts, and so on. So I'd choose a machete; it is a multi-functional tool that can double as a weapon on the rare occasion it is needed.

Going to war is a different matter. In that situation there is a 100% chance of needing a weapon. I'd choose a pollhammer or halberd (with a machete as a backup).

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by acrosome

Style Familiarity (Quarterstaff) [1]
Staff [12]
Grip Mastery (Staff) [1]
Sweep (Staff) [2]
Feint (Staff) [2]
Disarming (Staff) [2]
Back Strike (Staff) [2]

Style Familiarity (Dagger Fighting) [1]
Knife [10]
Fast-Draw (Knife) [10]
Wrestling [10]
Off-Hand Weapon Training (Knife) [1]
Quick-Swap (Knife) [1]
Arm Lock (Wrestling) [1]

Axe/Mace [10]
Sling [10]

How does it come about that you're paying 10 points each for Knife, Fast-Draw (Knife), Wrestling, Axe/Mace, and Sling? Skill costs go 1, 2, 4, 8, 12, and so on. I don't know any way a skill ever costs 10 points.

It appears that you've put 2 points each into four techniques based on Staff. That raises each of them to +1 relative to its default level from Staff. But if, instead, you put 8 points into Staff, raising it from 12 to 20, you would get +2 to the basic skill AND ALL ITS TECHNIQUES (which is better than +1) and also +1 to its parry. So that design seems seriously inefficient. In fact, it's generally not a good idea to buy up more than one technique from the skill-based default; buying up two techniques costs the same as buying up the underlying skill, which would raise all the techniques AND the tasks that are fundamental to the skill and can't be raised with a technique.

[FuelDrop]

Originally Posted by whswhs

How does it come about that you're paying 10 points each for Knife, Fast-Draw (Knife), Wrestling, Axe/Mace, and Sling? Skill costs go 1, 2, 4, 8, 12, and so on. I don't know any way a skill ever costs 10 points.

It appears that you've put 2 points each into four techniques based on Staff. That raises each of them to +1 relative to its default level from Staff. But if, instead, you put 8 points into Staff, raising it from 12 to 20, you would get +2 to the basic skill AND ALL ITS TECHNIQUES (which is better than +1) and also +1 to its parry. So that design seems seriously inefficient. In fact, it's generally not a good idea to buy up more than one technique from the skill-based default; buying up two techniques costs the same as buying up the underlying skill, which would raise all the techniques AND the tasks that are fundamental to the skill and can't be raised with a technique.

I think you could maybe get a skill costing 10 cp by buying up from default from another skill, but other than that? No idea.

Also agreed with buying one rank in techniques. Techniques are better when you commit to them.

[Donny Brook]

My favorite low tech weapon is spear, with long knife a close second. They are fundamental elements of a lens to make any kind of low TL character self-sufficient in a fight.


Basics:

Knife DX+2 [4]
Fast Draw:Knife DX [1]
Feint [2]
Equipment: (Long Knife, Wt=1.5, $120)

Spear DX+1 [4]
Grip Mastery: Spear [1]
Equipment: (Spear, Wt=4, $40)

Shield DX+2 [4]
Equipment: (Lt Shield. Wt=2, $25)

Brawling DX+1 [2]
Wrestling DX [2]


Options:

Throw (Spear) DX +2 [4]
Equipment: (The spear, above, or add a cheap javelin, Wt. 2, $12, Acc 2)

Throw (Knife) DX+2 [4]
Equipment: (Cheap Throwing Dagger x4, Wt=1, $32, Acc 0)

Sling DX [4]
Equipment: (Sling +20 bullets, Wt=1.5, $30)


The basic package means for [20cp], $185, and 7.5lb you're ready to be useful when a fight breaks out. If you take the whole package, you get a broadly competent Low-tech combatant for 32 points, $247, and 10lb. ($259, 12 lb. with the added javelin).

Put this lens on a non-fighter build like a thief, or a merchant, or healer and you can consider yourself tough.

Other angles are:

-drop Sling, and use the package as the secondary fighting competencies of an archery specialist or ranger.

-drop Spear Throwing and use it as the secondary competencies of a Staff specialist.

-drop something to DX+1 and take a Fine Long Knife $480 as Sig Gear [1] (TL3) plus a Weapon Bond [1].

[acrosome]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I am also curious why you would have six skills above DX+1 instead of just buying +1 DX?

To respect the optional rule from MA that justifies buying the various combat perks. You can buy one combat perk from a known style for every 10 points in a combat skill from that style. And you can buy one other combat perk of any kind for every 20 points in any combat skill.

So, e.g. with 20 points in a known style and 40 more in other combat skills for a total of 60, you could get up to 2 combat perks from the known style and 3 other combat perks of any kind.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I am confused, how are you spending 10 CP on Knife, Wrestling, Fast-Draw (Knife), Axe/Mace, and Sling?

Originally Posted by whswhs

How does it come about that you're paying 10 points each for Knife, Fast-Draw (Knife), Wrestling, Axe/Mace, and Sling? Skill costs go 1, 2, 4, 8, 12, and so on. I don't know any way a skill ever costs 10 points.

Ah, yeah, wups. I was just focusing too much on making the math work out. I fixed that, and did some more optimizing (see below).

Originally Posted by whswhs

It appears that you've put 2 points each into four techniques based on Staff. That raises each of them to +1 relative to its default level from Staff. But if, instead, you put 8 points into Staff, raising it from 12 to 20, you would get +2 to the basic skill AND ALL ITS TECHNIQUES (which is better than +1) and also +1 to its parry. So that design seems seriously inefficient. In fact, it's generally not a good idea to buy up more than one technique from the skill-based default; buying up two techniques costs the same as buying up the underlying skill, which would raise all the techniques AND the tasks that are fundamental to the skill and can't be raised with a technique.

And, wow, it looks like I said that would be more efficient, didn't I? I tend to think up a character concept and then design the character to match, rather than being a minmaxer, but ok, fine. I fixed it all, and even broke out a spreadsheet to be sure that I made it all work with the minimum possible points- 70. (Well, 68, but I added a couple of points to make it an even number.) I reduced the point total in Dagger Fighting to the point that you can only get one of the style's combat perks- pick your preference. And if you don't care about the style perks at all you could lose a couple of points that way.

Does it all look legal and aesthetic to everyone, now?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Some people seem to have short-sighted views on economics. Money comes and goes but character pts are forever.

So you don't want to spend a lot of cp on a weapon you can't have avaialble all the time. Spend all your time wandering in the wilderness? If so you can keep your spear.

If you spend most of your time in town pretending to be an Medieval/Renaissance aristocrat you _need_ a sword just to keep up appearances and a spear is low class trash you can't be seen with unless you're going boar-hunting. A hatchet is a peasant tool you can't be seen with period.

Put me down for a sword. In many settings there's a social class that can carry a sword anywhere. If you come into enough of that transient money you can get a VF sword but not much of anything else. Swords are also the VF/Magic weaposn you're most likely to find in dungeons too.

A lot of this is heavily setting-dependent, but if there is a weapon that’s going to be more likely than the others to be found enchanted (or be allowed to be Very Fine) or be more likely than the others to be acceptable to carry around, the sword is probably the most likely candidate.

Aside from that, when comparing sword to spear (which is roughly as physically convenient to carry around - use it as a walking stick), spear generally has the advantage in defense when lacking a shield (they’re roughly comparable when you have a shield), in reach, and in how much imp damage it deals, while sword has the advantage of sw cut damage (spear can only do thr cut, or sw cr, with the latter only when you lack a shield). Against supernatural foes who are more resilient against imp than cut (like the Shades in Chronicles of Everfall, or undead that aren’t particularly weak to cr), swords are typically better (axes could be better still, but swords generally have a defensive advantage over those - and swords are also easier to land a proper hit with, but GURPS doesn’t go that in-depth). More mundanely, I could see swords having an advantage over spears from horseback, at least if you don’t have the space for a proper charge, but I’m not certain. Note much of the above assumes a spearman who can readily use his spear as a staff, but I feel a Perk should be enough for that.

Polearms are probably superior to either of the above, but have the problems of more limited defenses (even with a Dueling Polearm and/or using Defensive Attacks, you can’t readily use a shield or claim the +2 staff bonus) necessitating heavy armor and being far less convenient to tote around. They also often need more open space to use, which can be problematic in many situations.

Finally, everything Dan said about the machete. There’s a reason I suggested it as a good sidearm.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Varyon

spearman who can readily use his spear as a staff, but I feel a Perk should be enough for that.

P.

Switching between Spear and staff is definitely the Form Mastery Perk. However, note that the Default betwen Spear and Staff is only -2. If you try and bring Polearm into it that's a -4 Default.

Even just using Spear and Staff at the same levels is 8 pts (plus the Perk). Polearm and Staff would be 16. Also, many of the Polearms in Basic can be used at multiple levels of Reach but require a Ready Maneuver to chnge Reach. Unless you have the Reach Mastery Perk but I do not believe any published Martial Art teaches that one.

Then while you're buying up from Defaults and geting Perks too the Sword user can be adding the same amount of points straight to Sword Skill. 4 levels worth or more. 4 levels of Skill available for Deceptive Attack negates the Staff's +2 to Parry and has many more uses too.

I am also not sold on the alledged equivalence in encumbrance of Spear to Sword. I point you towards Sir Rodney of the Wizard of Id.

More pts spent on a Staff/Spear/Polearm constellation might make for more versatility but spending those same pts on sword adds versatility too.

[Varyon]

Weapon Adaptation (Staff defaults to Spear) means using Staff weapons (including the spear when not attacking with the pointy end) with the Spear skill, which should allow you to maintain the +2 to Parry. As you’re not changing the skill with which you’re using the weapon, Form Mastery shouldn’t be necessary.

Some of the minutia could be debated here, but I feel “can use a spear like a spear or staff at full skill” is worth a Perk, maybe two Perks (Weapon Adaptation + Form Mastery). Of course, I also feel Spear and Staff probably shouldn’t have been separate skills to start with.

As for convenience, a comedy comic probably isn’t the best source, but I’ll concede a spear isn’t quite as convenient as a sword, but likely not to the extent of being actively problematic (unless it’s a particularly long spear, but the weapon I’m referring to is the basic spear). Then again, I’ve not spent much time toting around a spear - or sword for that matter - so I may be missing something.

[Kristoffer]

Either a Spear used with Staff skill for Defense and Spear skill for Attack, or a Flail and Shield, since most foes are more likely better at parries or blocks than dodges, it is a good hard to avoid weapon.

This is especially true if you are playing Dungeon Fantasy and you can purchase a Dwarven Morningstar and you don't even have to give up a parry.

I like the Long Knife as a side arm, as it doesn't have a parry penalty and can be used both in close combat and reach 1.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Weapon Adaptation (Staff defaults to Spear) means using Staff weapons (including the spear when not attacking with the pointy end) with the Spear skill, which should allow you to maintain the +2 to Parry. As you’re not changing the skill with which you’re using the weapon, Form Mastery shouldn’t be necessary.
g.

Having Form Mastery means Weapon Adaptation isn't necessary.

Even if you have Weapon Adaptation it only avoids the need to Default to another Skill i.e. you can use a Polearm with your full Staff Skill not borrowing whatever stats you like from the Staff line of the weapon's table.