A full meal of blood

[Railstar]

I searched the forum and found this thread - http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=36285 – but I didn’t want to necro, and there was one question in that thread which was brought up a few times but nobody seemed sure of the answer of.

Vampires lack “Doesn’t Eat or Drink” because eating blood counts as eating... Usually the vampire templates have some combination of Draining, Dependency & Unhealing which means the vampire is in all likelihood consuming enough blood in restoring their HP lost to Draining & Dependency (along with wounds) that they can be assumed to be meeting their meal requirements.

However, if the vampire has Regeneration instead of Unhealing, that changes things, because blood will immediately remove the Draining HP loss and their Regeneration would likely outpace the damage caused by Dependency (unless I house-rule otherwise or add Hazard to the Dependency), and even with the house rule in place, they’d regenerate back to full health reasonably quickly after their first 1 HP taste of blood. In which case, keeping track of “meals” becomes far more necessary.

One system that seemed to make sense for me for those with Vampiric Bite or Leech with Heals FP is that since a missed meal costs 1 FP, then each 1 FP restored through leech counts as a meal. However, this means 3 meals + 2 quarts of water x 3 HP per FP restored = 15 HP a day must be drained.

That seems pretty severe, although I suppose with Restricted Diet (Living Human Blood) [-20] then it probably should be severe.

In which case, either the Accelerated Healing enhancement on Leech is a good investment (reduces consumption to 5 HP per day), or Reduced Consumption. Would Very Fit also reduce the FP loss for starvation and dehydration? Or alternatively, would Very Fit extend the period one can go without meals before losing FP (so 3 meals per 2 days before losing FP? Lose 1 FP per 16 hours of insufficient water?).

Does this system sound reasonable? Anything I’m missing? How have you typically handled vampires in-game? Thanks in advance.

[Kelly Pedersen]

I think you're right, 15 HP seems a bit too severe. That means draining a single human, if not to death, than at least to serious, weeks-long recovery injury, every day.

I wouldn't assume that a typical vampire has both Draining and Dependency for human blood - that seems like overkill. I'd figure most have just Draining, meaning they lose 2 HP per day, and have to drain 6 HP worth of blood to counter that. I'd call that a full day's worth of "meals" for a vampire, so every 2 HP of blood equals one "meal".

So your vampire with Regeneration could drain just one HP every day and recover the HP lost to Draining, but they'd have to take 5 more HP or risk starvation (which, incidentally, sounds like a good reason to penalize self-control rolls for Uncontrollable Appetite, if they've got that too). That means that feeding from a single human every night would leave the victim damaged, but not dead or dying, and suggests that if the vampire wants to maintain a "herd" of humans that they can feed from without over-draining anyone, they should be getting about 10 people. (That lets them drain 1 HP each from 5 people, then do the same to the other 5 the next day, giving the first batch better odds of healing before they have to be drained again.)

[Varyon]

Blood is roughly 1 kcal per mL, and GURPS characters eat 3000-3600 kcal/day (of those rations that can be calculated, only the pemmican and jerky in LT fail to meet this level, but jerky rations in all other supplements do). Thus, an SM+0 creature with Restricted Diet (Blood) and no Reduced Consumption or similar would need to consume 3 liters of blood every day. That's more than half the blood in a typical person's body, and above 40% blood loss is a Class IV hemorrhage, which is basically guaranteed death without immediate medical assistance. Based on some old work I did for bleeding in GURPS, every liter is worth somewhere around 12 HP in injury. On the bright side, with blood being mostly water, 3 liters of it should cover your daily water needs.

Unless you want your vampires to basically need to kill someone every day (assuming they need human blood, as otherwise they can use cow blood or similar), you'll either want to go ahead and give them Doesn't Eat or Drink and some relevant Dependency or similar, or you'll at least want to give them several levels of Reduced Consumption. In order, from Reduced Consumption 0 to Reduced Consumption 4, this is 3 liters (~36 HP), 2 liters (~24 HP), or 1 liter (~12 HP) per day, 1 liter per week (~1.7 HP per day), and 1 liter per month (~0.4 HP per day).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Blood is roughly 1 kcal per mL, and GURPS characters eat 3000-3600 kcal/day (of those rations that can be calculated, only the pemmican and jerky in LT fail to meet this level, but jerky rations in all other supplements do). ).

Also agrees with where HT specifies that a 1200 calorie MRE equals one Gurps meal. C-rations (predecessor of MREs) were also at about this level.

If you're getting your blood from a US blood bank it usually seems to come in pints rather liters. That's how donors give blood in the US.

Some TV vampires (like Buffyverse types) seem to subsist on 1 pint per day adequately so some reduced Consumption would be necessary.

[Flyndaran]

I think, according to authors, Reduced/Increased Consumption is only about how often one eats/drinks, not mass or volume.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I think, according to authors, Reduced/Increased Consumption is only about how often one eats/drinks, not mass or volume.

No, that can't be right. Eating only one 3600 calorie meal per day wouldn't make for more than a Quirk much less an actual advantage.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Also agrees with where HT specifies that a 1200 calorie MRE equals one Gurps meal. C-rations (predecessor of MREs) were also at about this level.

If you're getting your blood from a US blood bank it usually seems to come in pints rather liters. That's how donors give blood in the US.

Some TV vampires (like Buffyverse types) seem to subsist on 1 pint per day adequately so some reduced Consumption would be necessary.

What I found during my previous research was that there's a more-or-less universally accepted "unit" of blood, equal to 500 mL. That is, of course, roughly a pint. And, yeah, the HT rations were a big part of me going with 3000-3600 kcal/day for GURPS characters - MRE's and hardtack are both 3600 kcal/day, while trail mix is 3000 kcal/day. For whatever reason, pemmican is only 2200 kcal/day, and jerky (due to being the same weight as pemmican, but with essentially no fat) is a paltry 1400/day. The generic rations you find in Basic Set, Dungeon Fantasy, After the End, and so forth, if made of pure protein and/or carbs (having either negligible fiber and fat, or enough of each to average to the same energy content as protein/carbs), would be just shy of 3000 kcal/day.

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I think, according to authors, Reduced/Increased Consumption is only about how often one eats/drinks, not mass or volume.

From what I recall, how often you need to eat is actually treated as a Feature, but quantity is what Reduced/Increased Consumption measures. Note also that 5 levels of Reduced Consumption would be the same price as Doesn't Eat or Drink, which also implies that the trait is about quantity, not frequency.

[Railstar]

Thanks for all the answers so far.

General questions.

1: Does Very Fit help with fatigue loss from starvation and dehydration?

2: How do you normally handle vampire feeding requirements in your games?

Originally Posted by Varyon

Blood is roughly 1 kcal per mL, and GURPS characters eat 3000-3600 kcal/day (of those rations that can be calculated, only the pemmican and jerky in LT fail to meet this level, but jerky rations in all other supplements do). Thus, an SM+0 creature with Restricted Diet (Blood) and no Reduced Consumption or similar would need to consume 3 liters of blood every day. That's more than half the blood in a typical person's body, and above 40% blood loss is a Class IV hemorrhage, which is basically guaranteed death without immediate medical assistance. Based on some old work I did for bleeding in GURPS, every liter is worth somewhere around 12 HP in injury. On the bright side, with blood being mostly water, 3 liters of it should cover your daily water needs.

Unless you want your vampires to basically need to kill someone every day (assuming they need human blood, as otherwise they can use cow blood or similar), you'll either want to go ahead and give them Doesn't Eat or Drink and some relevant Dependency or similar, or you'll at least want to give them several levels of Reduced Consumption. In order, from Reduced Consumption 0 to Reduced Consumption 4, this is 3 liters (~36 HP), 2 liters (~24 HP), or 1 liter (~12 HP) per day, 1 liter per week (~1.7 HP per day), and 1 liter per month (~0.4 HP per day).

On the bright side… that really cracked me up. :D

I’m a little hesitant to apply kcals because it seems more harsh than expected from the “standard” vampire templates (from Basic, Fantasy or Banestorm, Monster Hunters...) – don’t have Reduced Consumption or Doesn’t Eat or Drink, so either they are supposed to eat normal food in addition to blood, or they are supposed to consume that much blood every day, which I would assume is not the intention.

Originally Posted by Anders

Would this post by Ghostdancer be any help?

A spoonful of blood makes the undeath go round alone made it worth reading. However, I feel like it doesn’t really make clear where the “standard” vampire templates are left.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I think you're right, 15 HP seems a bit too severe. That means draining a single human, if not to death, than at least to serious, weeks-long recovery injury, every day.

I wouldn't assume that a typical vampire has both Draining and Dependency for human blood - that seems like overkill. I'd figure most have just Draining, meaning they lose 2 HP per day, and have to drain 6 HP worth of blood to counter that. I'd call that a full day's worth of "meals" for a vampire, so every 2 HP of blood equals one "meal".

So your vampire with Regeneration could drain just one HP every day and recover the HP lost to Draining, but they'd have to take 5 more HP or risk starvation (which, incidentally, sounds like a good reason to penalize self-control rolls for Uncontrollable Appetite, if they've got that too). That means that feeding from a single human every night would leave the victim damaged, but not dead or dying, and suggests that if the vampire wants to maintain a "herd" of humans that they can feed from without over-draining anyone, they should be getting about 10 people. (That lets them drain 1 HP each from 5 people, then do the same to the other 5 the next day, giving the first batch better odds of healing before they have to be drained again.)

I had been using that as a working theory, although this exchange - http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...55&postcount=3 - seems to imply that as soon as you drink blood you get the HP from Draining back; specifically “The latter is a bigger disad in general because the HP loss is standard injury and not some sequestered pool of HP that regenerates instantly if you drink a little blood or whatever.”

I could rule that not having Doesn’t Eat or Drink simply out cancels the instant-heal effect of the Draining. It would save on how much keeping track is necessary.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Railstar

Thanks for all the answers so far.

General questions.

1: Does Very Fit help with fatigue loss from starvation and dehydration?

2: How do you normally handle vampire feeding requirements in your games?

.

1: No. FP lost to exertion and FP lost to all other causes are handled differently.

2. The last vampire PC I saw got his blood out of the ship's replicator so we didn't worry about details. If that hadn't been available we would have chosen the next simplest solution. This HP to FP Draining v. Regeneration system is far too complicated for my group's tastes.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

1: No. FP lost to exertion and FP lost to all other causes are handled differently.

Err, actually Very Fit most definitely helps against FP types other than exertion:

Originally Posted by Kromm

FWIW, I give pretty much all career combat soldiers Fit in my games (and I give most special operators Very Fit and Combat Reflexes). This reflects the effects of marching around all the time with heavy loads, not sleeping much, and so on. If you don't wash out – which is antithetical to "career" – then you're Fit. I give most amateur athletes Fit, too, and anybody better than amateur Very Fit. This treatment makes these types of characters tougher survivors without automatically making them all sexy singers with excellent drinking skills.