Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-03-2012, 02:51 PM   #41
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
Default Re: [Speculation] GURPS 4.5e

Quote:
Originally Posted by wellspring View Post
I suspect that when Technical Grappling comes out, we'll want to change the way we talk about the core grappling rules. As written, they're the best I've seen in an RPG... but that's not saying much.
Were you in a group that played the new rules? Or did you mean "GURPS RAW are the best you've seen, etc.?"

Quote:
Fold "A Deadly Spring" into the standard rules. I think everyone will be on board with this one.
Even as the author, not so sure about that. The spreadsheet makes design more straightforward, as Ken Peters said in his review of the article way back when, and the system is self-consistent and (even if I say so myself) pretty cool.

But 'straight-forward and easy-to-grasp' it's not. It might have a place in a 4.5e or 5th edition weapons design supplement or something that revels in complexity, but I have a hard time believing it's a point of real salability.

dhc
__________________
My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC
My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify
My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon
DouglasCole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 03:05 PM   #42
robkelk
Untitled
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: between keyboard and chair
Default Re: [Speculation] GURPS 4.5e

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy View Post
Disagree; the Infinite Worlds stuff is completely useless in the Basic Set. Sure, include sample characters, monsters, etc, but there's no need to specifically utilize the IW setting or even discuss it in any detail; GURPS is much happier with no 'default' setting, and I think the Basic Set should reflect that.
If people actually paid attention to the "S" in "GURPS", that would be the way to go. However, they don't - people think it's a game, not a system.

In order to attract these people (and if there's no effort put into attracting new players, GURPS will wither on the vine), a setting of some sort needs to be present in the rulebook. IW is the most generic setting they've got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
None of this is DF-specific, and nuts to IW. Buy the genre book; you already have to if you actually want to use it. This half-baked taste isn't worth the space, and the surveys were against including a genre in the Basic Set anyways.
This applies equally to DF... unless you want to turn the system into a dungeon-crawl game, which would likely displease the large number of people who don't use GURPS to play fantasy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wellspring View Post
Fold "A Deadly Spring" into the standard rules. I think everyone will be on board with this one.
What is "A Deadly Spring", and how generic is it?
__________________
Rob Kelk
“Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.”
– Bernard Baruch,
Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950
No longer reading these forums regularly.
robkelk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 03:25 PM   #43
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: [Speculation] GURPS 4.5e

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Even as the author, not so sure about that. The spreadsheet makes design more straightforward, as Ken Peters said in his review of the article way back when, and the system is self-consistent and (even if I say so myself) pretty cool.

But 'straight-forward and easy-to-grasp' it's not. It might have a place in a 4.5e or 5th edition weapons design supplement or something that revels in complexity, but I have a hard time believing it's a point of real salability.
I think he was kidding, but a new edition would benefit from just basing bow damage on draw weight and simply having a table with Longbow, 150 lbs and so on. There doesn't really need to be 12 different draw-weights for bows from ST 8-20.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 07-03-2012 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Me am can speak English gud!
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 03:29 PM   #44
wellspring
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Default Re: [Speculation] GURPS 4.5e

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Were you in a group that played the new rules? Or did you mean "GURPS RAW are the best you've seen, etc.?"
I mean that Grappling as written in the Basic Set and expanded on in Martial Arts is the best I've seen in any RPG I've played so far. But the rules are still clunky and vague compared to other systems within GURPS.

I haven't seen Technical Grappling, but from hints I've seen on the forums, it sounds like the changes will be a big improvement to the system, and it's natural for such changes to get folded in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robkelk View Post
What is "A Deadly Spring", and how generic is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Even as the author, not so sure about that. The spreadsheet makes design more straightforward, as Ken Peters said in his review of the article way back when, and the system is self-consistent and (even if I say so myself) pretty cool.
This was meant as sarcasm. For Rob: A Deadly Spring is from Pyramid 3/33. It's a full system for creating bows. It's precisely the kind of rule set that, while very cool, does not belong in the Basic Set. It's too specialized, two fiddly and complicated, for too little gain for a basic gamer. You put rules like that in a PDF supplement, not the core book. (Douglas's sig has a fun quote from Jeffro's blog review, where he called it "...probably the most infamous Pyramid article of all time.")

While it was meant as a joke, it does illustrate a good point about the Basic Set. We're not just limited by page count, but by the intent of the book. The book is designed to be the core rules. Stuff like this, or David Pulver's Beam Weapon Creation rules, they're awesome for supplements intended to get into the weeds and be perfect for an expert or specialist. Adding very hard-core, peripheral rules like this can be distracting and diverts attention from the most important core rules.

You'll notice that most of the suggestions are to add stuff in. Really, for everything that's added, you need to figure out what should be removed to make room for it. Infinite Worlds is an obvious target, but some rules really do belong in a supplement, even if they are really good ones.

Last edited by wellspring; 07-03-2012 at 03:30 PM. Reason: Added link to pyramid
wellspring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 03:43 PM   #45
Rasputin
 
Rasputin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Default Re: [Speculation] GURPS 4.5e

Quote:
Originally Posted by robkelk View Post
If people actually paid attention to the "S" in "GURPS", that would be the way to go. However, they don't - people think it's a game, not a system.
Nobody buys the Basic Set for IW. He buys IW for IW. This is like Caravan for Ein Arris, which was cut from the Basic Set 3e for exactly this kind of product. Ain't nobody gonna miss it. And the casual buyer who thinks like this is only buying Characters anyhow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robkelk View Post
This applies equally to DF... unless you want to turn the system into a dungeon-crawl game, which would likely displease the large number of people who don't use GURPS to play fantasy.
Where are you getting that I want to put DF in this? I want traps, a common roleplaying game element, more fleshed out in the Basic Set. DF2 happens to have a good stat block for them, and deals with them more fully. Bruno's explanation is spot-on. (I also said I wanted computers too, which are not fantasy at all.)
__________________
Cura isto securi, Eugene.

My GURPS blog.
Rasputin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 03:48 PM   #46
Peter Knutsen
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Default Re: [Speculation] GURPS 4.5e

IW does function as a showcase for the versatility of GURPS. But I think that's already achieved by the IW sample characters. If the IW setting chapter is skipped, it might be possible to double or even triple the number of sample charcters, all from or appropriate to IW, and still come out with a net reduction in page count.
Peter Knutsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 03:48 PM   #47
Turhan's Bey Company
Aluminated
 
Turhan's Bey Company's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East of the moon, west of the stars, close to buses and shopping
Default Re: [Speculation] GURPS 4.5e

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
I want traps, a common roleplaying game element, more fleshed out in the Basic Set.
With that in mind, something like the chase rules from Action would be very broadly applicable.
__________________
I've been making pointlessly shiny things, and I've got some gaming-related stuff as well as 3d printing designs.

Buy my Warehouse 23 stuff, dammit!
Turhan's Bey Company is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 03:50 PM   #48
Crakkerjakk
"Gimme 18 minutes . . ."
 
Crakkerjakk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Default Re: [Speculation] GURPS 4.5e

Quote:
Originally Posted by robkelk View Post
This applies equally to DF... unless you want to turn the system into a dungeon-crawl game, which would likely displease the large number of people who don't use GURPS to play fantasy.
You don't seem to understand. A small section of DF2 has some useful trap rules. The suggestion is to rip out IW setting content and replaceit with content that is useful across multiple genres, with generic traps rules being one example.
__________________
My bare bones web page

Semper Fi
Crakkerjakk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 03:51 PM   #49
Crakkerjakk
"Gimme 18 minutes . . ."
 
Crakkerjakk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Default Re: [Speculation] GURPS 4.5e

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
With that in mind, something like the chase rules from Action would be very broadly applicable.
Agreed. I'd tack them onto the special combat situations chapter.
__________________
My bare bones web page

Semper Fi
Crakkerjakk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 03:57 PM   #50
robkelk
Untitled
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: between keyboard and chair
Default Re: [Speculation] GURPS 4.5e

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
You don't seem to understand. A small section of DF2 has some useful trap rules. The suggestion is to rip out IW setting content and replaceit with content that is useful across multiple genres, with generic traps rules being one example.
Ah. Are traps really that generic, though? Maybe they should be in a supplement, like the explosives rules should be.
__________________
Rob Kelk
“Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.”
– Bernard Baruch,
Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950
No longer reading these forums regularly.
robkelk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
4.5e, new skill, speculation

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.