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Old 10-30-2014, 09:12 PM   #1
lachimba
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Default Feng Shui 2

Supported the Kick Starter, read the playtest rules.

I think I'm probably the opposite of a customer as the ruleset and emphasis on fights feels like something I would only get a few sessions out of.

If I did it with GURPS action and emphasised chases, capers and investigation etc Id feel a lot more at home.

Im looking forward to the extra material that will help with the style elements of the game.
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:55 AM   #2
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Feng Shui 2

Well, it is a game about kung fu action movies, so an "emphasis on fights" is to be expected. Not all game systems are intended to be Generic and Universal.

One of the things I liked about the system (first edition) was that it was built to do just this. You get a bonus for attempting wacky movie stunts. Note that that's not a bonus that offsets reasonable penalties, as with Daredevil in GURPS. It's just simply more likely that you succeed if you act like an over-the-top movie character -- so, naturally, rational players will do just that, rather than be cautious and shave the odds. It would be a terrible system for lots of settings.

It's also the second-funniest rulebook I can recall (first place going to Paranoia, of course).

The writing is also quite interesting in that it's entirely done with a view toward what the players care about in the game play. Look at the weapon descriptions, for instance. Most books judt give you a boring table of dry stats with model names. This one describes the weapon in terms of "look and feel", and what sort of characters in action movies tend to have the guns. That is, the sort of thing you'd really want to know if you're not a gun aficionado and want something appropriate for your faceless Eastern European mooks, stylish Euro-terrorists taking over buildings, or something for the professor to keep in his desk drawer. Whether or not the magazine holds 11 or 12 rounds is really pretty secondary, especially in this genre.

So, what about the Kickstarter edition? Rewritten from scratch? Same sort of tone? Or did they change it up?
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:49 AM   #3
Armin
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Default Re: Feng Shui 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
So, what about the Kickstarter edition? Rewritten from scratch? Same sort of tone? Or did they change it up?
I don't know about rewritten from scratch, but it is pretty extensively rewritten. I think the tone of the writing and the world is pretty similar.

They've greatly simplified some of the mechanical aspects of the rules. Some for the good, some for the bad.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:21 PM   #4
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Feng Shui 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
One of the things I liked about the system (first edition) was that it was built to do just this. You get a bonus for attempting wacky movie stunts. Note that that's not a bonus that offsets reasonable penalties, as with Daredevil in GURPS. It's just simply more likely that you succeed if you act like an over-the-top movie character -- so, naturally, rational players will do just that, rather than be cautious and shave the odds. It would be a terrible system for lots of settings.
It's funny. Whenever people perpetuate this miminformation, I ask for a page reference where the RAW actually says that any bonus of that sort is given, and I never get that page reference.

Because Feng Shui (v1) gives no such bonus.

What it does it it simply does not penalize the player for wanting his character to achieve a given tactical goal in a complicated or difficult fashion. The only penalty you get is a fixed per-mook-after-the-first penalty. Say I want to take out 4 mooks with a single action. That-s a -3 penalty, -1 per mook after the first. It doesn't matter how I do it. It doesn't matter how I describe it. It's always a -3 penalty. And I can choose whether they are killed or rendeed unconscious.

The only "bonus" there is is the bonus of fun whackiness not being penalized, thereby indirectly being encouraged, so that the metagame entities around the table are entertained.

It may very well be that many Feng Shui groups play the game as described, so that players get a bonus for attempting to achive the same tactical goal in a more over-the-top fashion. It may even be te vast majority of Feng Shui groups who does it that way.

But there is no basis for it in the RAW of the core book.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:31 PM   #5
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Feng Shui 2

My main problem with Feng Shui is the total clone feel of the various character classes. All Thieves are the same, all Mechanics are the same, all Ninja are the same.

Play one Ninja, he dies, create another, whoops, he'll inevitably be completely similar to the first one. Yaaawn.

That's caused by each character class only having one schtick.



I can see two solutions to that. Both reqire game design. One solution is to give each class many class schticks to choose from, and allow a minimum of 2 or in some cases 3 scthicks chosen at game start (i.e. out of a dozen or so available), with more chosen as character advancement (similar to how characters can currently choose general non-class specific combat schticks).

The other is to use mostly the same approach I used in my old design Multiclass RPG, and which I will also invitably be using if I ever decide to resume development of my old Modern Action RPG (which started out as Action Movie RPG and a direct attempt at "Feng Shui done right", but ended up much more like GURPS Action, made more to support action thriller movie campaigns than pure action movie-style campaigns, as that more accurately reflects my actual interest).

That approach is to have each player character have multiple classes. Not as in multiclassing being something players can choose to do, but as being something all players must do, from game start.

In Multiclass RPG, you choose 3 classes out of 12, a Primary, Secondary and Tertiary, for a total of 1320 combinations.

If I were to resume Modern Action RPG, I'd require just two classes chosen, side-by-side (no primary/seconary) out of perhaps 20 or 30 to choose from (the current non-multiclassed writeup has about 55 classes), making for beween 200 and 450 combinations.

And likewise with Feng Shui, it should be modified so as to accomodate a character creation game mechanics change where all player characters, and all created NPCs, must have two classes rather than just one. And I think the primary/secondary distinction would overcomplicate things, which would be contrary to the design spirit and the intended play mood of Feng Shui, so that instead a Thief/Ninja or Mechanic/Martial Artist would be functionally similar to a Ninja/Thief or a Martial Artist/Mechanic.
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Old 10-31-2014, 01:08 PM   #6
Armin
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Default Re: Feng Shui 2

Well, Peter, from your point of view, Feng Shui 2 will be even worse than the previous version, because there's now even less customization of archetypes when you create a character. They're basically designed as pick-and-play now.
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Old 10-31-2014, 09:12 PM   #7
lachimba
 
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Default Re: Feng Shui 2

I dont find the tone of FS2 funny, ill try a reread, but it seems a genuine attempt to emulate the genre rather than satirise it.

The default of the rules in FS2 is more the results of the rolls should mirror the success or total fail of the technique.

Perhaps i'm more ignorant of the genre than others, but talking seems pretty important in the movies Ive seen, so id appreciate that. And sneaking around B and E surely thats something thats attempted even if it often ends in combat.

I do think the templates are cookie cutter, there is discussion on giving your PC motivation.

I find it most appealing for a one shot Matrix or Kung Fu Hustle one shot (though id love some guidelines on slap stick for the lategter).

Eg pcs meet, theres a fight to introduce them, talking exposition, theres a fight that escalates things, talking exposition, showdown fight.
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Old 11-01-2014, 01:23 AM   #8
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Feng Shui 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
I dont find the tone of FS2 funny, ill try a reread, but it seems a genuine attempt to emulate the genre rather than satirise it.
I can't speak for the upcoming 2E, but 1E was a genuine attempt to emulate something. Just something fairly specific. And quite possibly while pointing out the inherent silliness in some of the conventions.
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Old 11-10-2014, 07:21 AM   #9
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Feng Shui 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
I dont find the tone of FS2 funny, ill try a reread, but it seems a genuine attempt to emulate the genre rather than satirise it.
Humor doesn't have to be satire.
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