11-05-2018, 05:46 PM | #11 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.
While we're on that, what about Guy Fawkes Day?
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11-06-2018, 04:32 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
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Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.
Seems to be more often referred to as "Bonfire Night" these days, and isn't a public holiday; the point is purely the fireworks in the evening. And the appeal of fireworks may take some killing -- I guess that augmented reality apps to create your own super-display at whim could be an issue, but you'd need full immersive five-senses VR to get the full experience.
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11-06-2018, 06:27 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: near London, UK
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Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.
Quote:
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11-06-2018, 07:02 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
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Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.
Australia used to have Fireworks Night (aka Cracker Night) on the Queen's Birthday holiday (2nd Monday in June, fyi) until state governments banned fireworks sales. That killed the holiday pretty quickly.
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11-06-2018, 08:09 AM | #15 |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Virginia
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Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.
The only logical foes of Guy Fawks Day are those who either oppose English or British national identities. Frankly, somebody else's national holidays are mainly a curiosity to me and I assume most people. Unless there is an anti-British passion why attack the 5th of November?
Maybe "V for Vendetta" freaks out some dictator or other.
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11-06-2018, 10:10 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
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Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.
I’ve never heard of any objection to Bonfire Night apart from safety and animal welfare concerns related to fireworks (which have led to a bit of a switch from people letting off fireworks in their gardens to public displays). Putting a “Guy” (a crude effigy of Guy Fawkes) on the bonfire seems to be less common; I guess that burning humanoid figures isn’t so much to modern tastes. But some places still even burn contemporary unpopular people in effigy, just to be a bit edgy.
I guess if we ever had a resurgence of anti-Catholic prejudice and then a pushback, someone on one side or the other might remember what the original story was about, but as Roger says, these days, you have to be a bit of a history geek to know it. And trying to deprive people of a firework display and an excuse to eat baked potatoes isn’t a memetic project I’d want to tackle.
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11-06-2018, 02:42 PM | #17 | |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Virginia
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Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.
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11-06-2018, 02:48 PM | #18 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.
The main battleground is likely to be what traditions are emphasized, not attempts to destroy the holiday. Christmas is a good example of this. It has many different traditions that can be emphasized to reflect different values. Caroling reflects one set of sensibilities, nativity sets another, and Santa Claus can take Christmas into an entirely different direction from the other two. Songs are written that emphasize "Peace on Earth" to decry war and oppression. Cries are made about "Don't forget those not of the dominant faith!". And there is an entire segment of Christmas traditions dedicated to romance.
Some people are trying to spread their ideology, some people are trying to have fun, and some people are trying to make money. Every holiday is like this, though Christmas shows it more visibly because its a larger holiday. Taking own an entire holiday is hard: they're usually not singular memes, but small memplexes. A more effective tactic is to target specific traditions and practices. eventually, you may whittle away a holiday until it can be squelched, but its a large and long-term project.
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11-08-2018, 04:39 AM | #19 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ipswich, UK
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Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.
I knew someone who wouldn't celebrate Guy Fawkes as he went to Guy Fawke's old school, none of the school did celebrate it.
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11-12-2018, 09:01 PM | #20 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.
I read somewhere that "A Visit from St. Nicholas" aka "'Twas the Night Before Christmas" by Clement Clarke Moore was part of a early 1800s memetic campaign by various authors and public figures to change Christmas from a drunken party to a family oriented holiday.
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