Using Telekinesis to fly, and for defenses?

[Kax]

Originally Posted by Boge

I was under the impression that whatever you did with your telekinesis acted as your own skills, like lock-picking, pickpocket, throwing, etc. Is that not the case?

If she "attacks" with telekinesis, what skill or stat does it typically go off to determine success? If she can use her DX based combat roll, does she get the damage bonuses as well? (+2 per die for Karate above DX level)

Would defenses be the same way? I'm still getting mixed answers on whether it's even possible to defend.

Read the Telekinesis description in the Basic book: it answers all of this. I laid it out from the rulebook in one of my posts above.

Special note: she does not get the special or basic parts of the Karate skill unless she pays for TK to be able to use Karate.

The 'disembodied hands' don't actually exist. You are acting on an object as if you had disembodied hands.

[Boge]

Originally Posted by Kax

* Move the object but not manipulate its parts

How can I take an "Attack maneuver to shoot him"-B92 Example- if I can't manipulate the trigger?

Originally Posted by Kax

Read the Telekinesis description in the Basic book: it answers all of this. I laid it out from the rulebook in one of my posts above.

Special note: she does not get the special or basic parts of the Karate skill unless she pays for TK to be able to use Karate.

The 'disembodied hands' don't actually exist. You are acting on an object as if you had disembodied hands.

It doesn't mention anything about defending, not even if you're holding an object.

It doesn't mention anything about unarmed skill bonuses applying even though it does say "Roll against DX or an unarmed combat skill to hit."

There's also this under Power Defense-Psionic Powers p8 "may make a power defense to shore up defenses against an incoming “attack.” - "If the attack was a physical one, note that the psi has already used an active defense against it". So it sounds like you can use TK as a Power Defense against any attack. I could be wrong. That's just how I'm interpreting the text.


Also, why is Telekinesis 5 point/level and it basically includes whatever abilities, but in the Psionics Powers, they're more expensive for less ability?

[Kax]

Originally Posted by Boge

How can I take an "Attack maneuver to shoot him"-B92 Example- if I can't manipulate the trigger?

Apology; 'manipulate it' is included. You'd need two simultaneous uses of TK to reload, though.

Originally Posted by Boge

It doesn't mention anything about defending, not even if you're holding an object.

Because you can't.

Originally Posted by Boge

It doesn't mention anything about unarmed skill bonuses applying even though it does say "Roll against DX or an unarmed combat skill to hit."

Because they don't.

Originally Posted by Boge

Also, why is Telekinesis 5 point/level and it basically includes whatever abilities, but in the Psionics Powers, they're more expensive for less ability?

Because, as noted in the Power construction at the bottom of the TK Grab, it's Line Of Sight plus other modifiers on the base Telekinesis ability.

[Kax]

If you want to use special abilities of skills, buy mods for TK to allow that, as noted.

If you want to defend, buy defense powers.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Boge

I was under the impression that whatever you did with your telekinesis acted as your own skills, like lock-picking, pickpocket, throwing, etc. Is that not the case?

There are a couple of different ways this can work. You can either do something entirely with TK, in which case you roll against DX. Alternatively, if you're using your own body to do something, you can use TK to help, in which case you use whatever skill would be normally be required, but get a +4 bonus from using TK to provide supernatural assistance. However, that's default TK - the version in Psionic Powers, TK Grab, specifies that you can instead substitute a roll against an IQ-based version of an appropriate skill when doing something entirely with TK. That's a special effect, though, of psionic Telekinesis, and it's up to the GM if it applies to "wild" TK.

Originally Posted by Boge

If she "attacks" with telekinesis, what skill or stat does it typically go off to determine success? If she can use her DX based combat roll, does she get the damage bonuses as well? (+2 per die for Karate above DX level)

Standard "wild" TK says to roll against DX or an unarmed combat skill to hit, so that's what you roll against. If you use a skill like Karate, I'd give the bonus damage to hit, personally.

Originally Posted by Boge

Would defenses be the same way?

Yes, defenses would work the same way. If you were just using your DX, you'd calculate the TK's parry as DX/2+3, while if you were using an unarmed skill, it would be skill/2+3, just as usual.

Originally Posted by Kax

You'd need to apply Power modifiers for using a different stat and also allowing the special effects of the Karate skill--this is allowing more than one action a turn.

I don't believe it is, no. Telekinesis says that after concentrating, "Your TK may then perform one standard maneuver as if were a disembodied pair of hands at some point within your range." Most standard maneuvers include a defense as part of them. If your TK takes an Attack maneuver, I see no reason why it can't do a parry as part of that, just like if you took the Attack yourself. The only limitation I can see applying is that if the TK's maneuver happened somewhere out of reach of you personally, then it probably shouldn't be allowed to act as though it were right next to you to do a parry when you're attacked - your attention was focused elsewhere in that case.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

If your TK takes an Attack maneuver, I see no reason why it can't do a parry as part of that, just like if you took the Attack yourself.

It can certainly parry an attack aimed at the TK (including the wielded weapon), but the wording suggests treating your TK as a separate entity, so to protect the character it would need to use rules for parrying for other people.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Kax

Power Parries are just Power vs. Power, with no distinction on what they are as long they are capable of interacting with each other.

Power Parry is derived from the Innate Attack skill, so I think you'd only be able to use it with advantages like Affliction / Binding / Innate Attack that use it. I don't think Telekinesis uses that skill.

CANCEL THE ABOVE, you are right per Psionic Powers as Boge's reply points out, I just don't think it was possible based on what was in GURPS Powers.

Originally Posted by Kax

She's either using Karate or Telekinesis

If you have the Karate skill and take a Concentrate maneuver, you can still make Karate-based parries.

Since your TK can also use your unarmed combat skills, IT can make Karate-based parries as well. Since it's a distinct entity from you, you might even be able to get 2 defenses per attack (your own parry, and your TK making a Sacrificial Parry for you)

But I think the range limitations for that would be limited to whatever hex you left your TK-hands in. They can't just show up anywhere as needed, because they can only move about on their own turn.

The only way around that which I can see would be if the TK hands took a Wait maneuver that could translate into an attack maneuver toward an enemy attacking you, where they could take a step closer to intercede and parry on your behalf.

Another would be to enhance Reach by the TK wielding a long weapon. You can't buy Size Modifier or Stretching for your TK hands (besides, they are hands, not hands AND arms) to increase their reach. The only way I can think to increase it would be All-Out Attack (Long) which would prevent it from taking defenses anyway.

Committed Attack (Long) or Heroic Lunge could be an option, but I think the +1 to reach only applies to the actual attack, not the reach of your weapon for parrying.

Originally Posted by Boge

There's also this under Power Defense-Psionic Powers p8 "may make a power defense to shore up defenses against an incoming “attack.” - "If the attack was a physical one, note that the psi has already used an active defense against it". So it sounds like you can use TK as a Power Defense against any attack. I could be wrong. That's just how I'm interpreting the text.

I think you're right. I think this is a NEW ruling. Page 9 makes it sound like you CAN do a Power Parry with TK now:

For successful defense with Innate Attack or TK, roll damage (thrust damage for TK) and reduce the damage of the incoming attack by that amount before applying DR

Direct TK opposition aside though, I think for example, if you are wielding a sword and doing Concentrate maneuvers and your TK hands are holding a shield, then it should be possible to get 2 active defenses: your TK trying to Block for you, and your swords trying to Parry for you.

Or if you rule that you need the Sacrificial Parry or Shield Wall perks to use those on behalf of others (and that TK can never acquire those perks) they should still be able to do a Sacrificial Dodge... I'm not sure that would help unless the hands were holding something since they wouldn't actually provide any Cover DR.

P83 on the other hand, under the Animation enhancement, only says "An animated object can grab, lift, strike, and throw". Active defenses like dodge and parry are not addressed...

If your TK didn't have a weapon, it seems like it ought to be able to do normal unarmed parries, but there is a penalty inherent to doing that, and reach limitations (close combat) whereas Power Parry is much more versatile as it can be done at your full reach and against things which can't be parried/blocked like gunfire.

found a Kromm post

TK works just like two bare hands, which means that any blows or grapples are thrown at DX, strikes do punching damage (thrust-1), and parries are at (DX/2)+3.

Kromm also

Telekinesis requires "constant concentration to use" rather than "a Concentrate maneuver to activate." Reduced Time explicitly states, "You may only add this enhancement to abilities that require time to activate." The wording isn't random; activation is one thing, use is quite another.

I think what this would mean is that you take your Concentrate maneuver, you choose the maneuver for your hands... but if anything happens prior to you being attacked to make you lose your concentration, the hands would cease to be (though you could re-create them next turn with another concentrate) and couldn't parry for you. Any objects you were holding would also be dropped.

This is about the "Will-3 roll" required when using active defenses, injured, knocked down or "otherwise distracted". So the best thing would be to have your TK defend you first (it's parrying, not you, so I don't think it would require the roll to maintain concentration) and if it fails, then you could use your own defense as a last resort, but that would cause a will roll possibly dispelling your TK hands, which could no longer protect you for the rest of your turn.

[Boge]

Originally Posted by Plane

[COLOR="White"]Direct TK opposition aside though, I think for example, if you are wielding a sword and doing Concentrate maneuvers and your TK hands are holding a shield, then it should be possible to get 2 active defenses: your TK trying to Block for you, and your swords trying to Parry for you.

Psionic Powers p8
"Failure, however,
means that the defensive benefits are ignored; the attack slips
right through it! If the attack was a physical one, note that the
psi has already used an active defense against it, and does not
get another one unless he took All-Out Defense (Double
Defense)."

Powers p167
"Power defenses aren’t mun-
dane defenses, though. A hero can
attempt a Power Block and a mun-
dane block on the same turn, has no
penalty on future parries if he tries a
Power Parry, and can attempt a Power
Parry during a Move and Attack."

These sound contradictory. I'm starting to understand why people prefer other games. I love the detail for Gurps, but man, oh man does this stuff get confusing.

I don't know if your Telekinesis wielding an object for a defense counts as a Power Defense...maybe not *confused*.

If I was the GM (I'm not), I'd rule that you can defend with your Telekinetic wielded object, but not the force itself other than the Power Defense which is more a damage reduction than a defense. You would also be under the penalties of defending another player if wielding an object. I'm hesitant to allow an unarmed parry with these "hands". I don't see them as a pair of hands you float around. You just have that similar type of control over objects that you would with your hands. The attacks without an object are just a force, not an actual hand punching someone. That's how I see it.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Boge

I don't know if your Telekinesis wielding an object for a defense counts as a Power Defense...maybe not *confused*.

What you seem to be missing is that there are two different types of defenses allowed by TK. First is a standard parry, performed just as if you were performing it, using any relevant unarmed skill. Second, the one your quotes are referring to, is a Power parry, where you're directly putting force against force. The distinction is that the first type is allowed by any version of TK that hasn't used modifiers to remove the ability to parry. The second is only available if the GM decides that your particular type of TK, as defined by the rules established for its power modifier, allows a power parry. Not all forms of TK will do so.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Boge

These sound contradictory. I'm starting to understand why people prefer other games. I love the detail for Gurps, but man, oh man does this stuff get confusing.

Specific overwrites General, though it should be noted that anything in Psionic Powers only applies to things in Psionic Powers as it is a worked example (meaning various campaign-level options have already been applied). It doesn't sound like your friend's GM is using Psionic Powers.