Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-22-2018, 06:33 AM   #51
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajardoor View Post
If we're on the topic of RPM, you should probably see this thread of mine.
Thanks. A lot of good stuff in there.

Two PCs have Signature Gear firearms which they've made into the equivalent of Wands (see Charms 'R' Us sidebar in Pyramid #3/66 p. 9), so that all copies of bullet Charms loaded in them count as only one Charm for the purposes of how many conditional spells you can have active. These firearms are, respectively, a break-open SxS double-barrel shotgun (Ithaca Magnum Double, 10 G 3.5"), a cap-and-ball combination grapeshot revolver (Girard LeMat, .442 and 18G), a bolt-action rifle (A-Square Hannibal, .577 Tyrannosaur) and a semi-automatic pistol (FN Browning HP, 9x19mm).

This means that they'll usually be loaded with only one kind of Charm at a time. For the shotgun, however, the Charms 'R' Us treatment is only 'saving' one conditional spell slot, as it only has two Shots, so it's possible that the PC will occasionally have two different Charms loaded.

The third magician in the party is a Cajun backwoods/swamp enclave 'druid', who actually owns a couple of firearms (two of which are a Colt 'Peacemaker' SAA in .45 LC and a black-powder Winchester 1886 lever-action in .45-70), but doesn't rely on them for his ritual workings. His Charms will be delivered through acorns, nuts and the like, as well as sling stones.

Heh. Tell players that magic will affect the Malf. of technological devices, with the effects tied to TL of the device*, and suddenly everyone is packing archaic weapons. Given that Signature Gear offers significant protection from the effects, at least two of the PCs are probably using less advanced devices than they could get away with. Of course, the fact that I'm allowing bonuses to enchant items based on their personal connection with the owner and status as a heirloom in his family** might have something to do with why there are some pretty old weapons in use.

Of course, 'Nonc' Morel, the backcountry 'druid', is just going above and beyond on the roleplaying when he elects to own black powder firearms, as he didn't even take any magically significant traits related to them and could just as well have owned an SKS rifle and a Glock pistol.

Of course, this way, he can elect to pick up Signature Gear and Named Possession for them in play, if he wants.

*When and how it is made matters some, but even if made in the modern day with mass-manufacturing methods, a revolver or a bolt-action weapon will be less affected than a semi-automatic firearm.
**Requires the Named Possession Perk.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Last edited by Icelander; 12-23-2018 at 08:29 AM.
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2018, 12:36 PM   #52
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Edward Alvin Smith traveled back to this world with a flat disk of dark olive jade, with an engraved sigil, which he has dubbed the Elder Sign. On the other side of the jade amulet, there are various other sigils.

He has determined this object to be a combination of a Grimoire written in Nommo petroglyphs (Dead Language and Encrypted), a +1 Skill Focuser for Warding spells and rituals that harm Outsiders, and a +2 Skill Focuser on a specific ritual, the Elder Sign.

As a kind GM, while I do not allow the Skill Foci bonuses to be cumulative, I do allow the +2 Skill Focuser to the Elder Sign to be bought as an Alternate Ability, for 1/5, because the Elder Sign is already covered by the Moderate scope and is thus effectively only getting a +1. This means that as a Skill Focus, the Elder Sign costs $40,000 + (10,000*5*1/5)) = $60,000.

The PC bought this as a 10 point Signature Gear, which means that there are ca $40,000 left to write this up as a Grimoire.

It will certainly have the Elder Sign ritual, which is a powerful protection against Outsiders, at a +7 bonus. That's ($26,000*(100%-40%)), which translates into $15,600. The other spells will all have to share a Path, I guess, which is rather disappointing, because it's functionally speaking supposed to be a Grimoire of Wardings in the wider sense (i.e. including banishing spells, the closing of gateways and even damaging Outsiders that do not belong in this reality), which tend have the same effects, but be spread out across Paths.

It's possible that they'll be linked through the Path of Crossroads, if I decide that affecting Outsiders uses that Path, just as Spirit affects any kind of incorporeal being and Body any kind of corporeal being. But it still seems odd that it can't even contain a basic ward against magic.

Is a thematic connection close enough so that a Grimoire is valid, even if some of the spells use different Paths, as long as all of them include some form of Warding effect?
I would say so, yes. I allow alternate bonuses for foci in The Chronicles of Ceteri campaign, so that follows. As for a thematic connection for grimoires - I'd allow it. That said, look at the rules for Book magic for RPM in Pyramid #66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Invictus
Spell Effects: Lesser Strengthen Crossroads + Lesser Strengthen Mind + Lesser Strengthen Mind.
Inherent Modifiers: Altered Traits, Resistant +8 (Outsider Mental Effects, inc. Fright Checks, Common) + Altered Trait, Mind Shield + Bestows a Bonus +2.
Greater Effects: 0 (x1).

This is typically cast as a charm. This ritual protects the mind from supernatural intrusions, adding +5 to resistance rolls against psi powers and the like. If the supernatural intrusion is from Outside, not only from another plane, but from outside the known world, the ritual gives another +10 to resist it, for a total of +15 to resistance rolls against attempts by Outsiders to mentally influence or attack you. You also gain a +10 bonus on Fright Checks against Outsiders.

Typical Casting: Lesser Strengthen Crossroads (3) + Lesser Control Magic (5) + Lesser Strengthen Mind (3) + Lesser Strengthen Mind (3) + Altered Trait, Mind Shield 5 (20) + Bestows a Bonus, Narrow +2 (2) + Duration, 3 hours (4). 40 energy (40×1).

Does this look all right?

It hasn't got any Greater effects because there is no blatant use of the supernatural and nothing that could not be explained away.
Looks fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Edward Smith wants to have a tattoo Charm that anchors him to this world and this reality.

In game terms, what does that do and how is it written up as a Ritual?

I was thinking that it was a Lesser Strengthen Crossroad effect and that it granted some traits or Bestowed a Bonus related to resisting reality-warping, plane-shifting and the like.

The Bestows a Bonus thing is easy to figure, but what GURPS traits can be read as 'anchoring' a character to his reality?
I'd treat it as Resistant to Spatial Effects or Reality Warping (call that a Common category for Resistant).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I don't want the ability to Detect places of higher Mana, Thresholds or Bad Places at a distance. I just want the ability for mages to perceive it when one of these things is affecting them, without casting a spell.

In other words, if they automatically know the modifiers to their energy gathering rolls for local Mana, Place of Power, desecration, etc. as soon as they actually make a roll to gather energy, wouldn't it be just a Perk, at most, to be able to notice that stuff with a Thaumatology skill roll without actually gathering a point of energy?

It almost seems like Thaumatology, to do anything (other than be a cap for Paths), must be able to analyze ley lines, mana flows and the like, which sort of demands that you should be able to use it to interpret the feelings you get when the area you are in imposes modifiers on your magic use.

Detect, by definition, finds something you could not have been aware of through your other senses. In this case, I'm not trying to find an area of higher Mana or a powerful Threshold, I'm looking for a way for PC magicians who are already affected by the Mana Level and the Threshold to be able to determine how much impact the area is having on their powers.

Would it be balanced for this to be a Thaumatology skill roll, with how much information is revealed depending on margin of success, or should this always be a Lesser Sense Magic ritual?
I suppose you could use a perk. But I'd personally still think it's worth more since one of the hazards of casting in RPM is not knowing what the local ambient magic is like until you start casting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
For the purposes of the Stoneshaping ritual in the 'Old Ways' article in Pyramid #3/56 p. 32, you can affect 'stone, but not metal or other minerals'.

It is noted that there might be other rituals that work similarly, for different classes of matter. The example given is 'Woodshaping'.

What other rituals of this kind could plausibly exist? How broad should the categories be?

By analogy from 'Woodshaping', 'Coralshaping' seems balanced enough, especially in an environment with many types of coral that doesn't exist on Earth and which might be used by cultures there.

How would other minerals than stone be divided?

What other, useful matter (even if formerly alive) can be shaped with variations of this ritual?

Especially matter found in the ocean, tropical lagoons or island/beach environment, in an otherwordly mirror of islands in the Caribbean?
I'd use the rules for Permeation category-wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
So far, I've found published Ritual Path Magic rituals in these GURPS books and Pyramid magazines:

GURPS Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic
Pyramid #3/43 Thaumatology III
Pyramid #3/48 Secret Magic
Pyramid #3/56 Prehistory
Pyramid #3/73 Monster Hunters II
Pyramid #3/78 Unleash Your Soul
Pyramid #3/111 Combat II

Pyramid #3/58 Urban Fantasy II, Pyramid #3/66 Laws of Magic and Pyramid #3/82 Magical Creations have important rules for RPM, but I've not seen any actual rituals written up in them, though I might have overlooked a couple.

So, what GURPS supplements and Pyramid magazines where rituals are written up for the Ritual Path Magic system am I missing?

Where have I not looked?

And are there any accessible* Designer Notes with more rituals?

*Old links to them on Rice's blog do not seem to work.
If you're going through the blog thread on the forums almost all links are dead there. Blogspot did a number on me. That said, look on my blog at my credits under the about the author tab. Should have all of them listed there.

Just about most of my work that is about magic has rules snuck in for RPM in Pyramid. I have scattered example spells everywhere.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2018, 01:17 PM   #53
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
I would say so, yes. I allow alternate bonuses for foci in The Chronicles of Ceteri campaign, so that follows. As for a thematic connection for grimoires - I'd allow it. That said, look at the rules for Book magic for RPM in Pyramid #66
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
I'd treat it as Resistant to Spatial Effects or Reality Warping (call that a Common category for Resistant).
That sounds good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
I suppose you could use a perk. But I'd personally still think it's worth more since one of the hazards of casting in RPM is not knowing what the local ambient magic is like until you start casting.
Ah. I hadn't realized that aspect.

Well, how does it work for creatures that are Affected by Threshold? Without buying Detect or casting a ritual, what do their ordinary senses and any relevant analytical or thaumaturgical skills tell such beings about the power, features and personality of any Thresholds they come into contact with?

Are all rolls to penetrate a Threshold secret and the beings have no idea whether they were repelled by an ordinary home Threshold or the private sanctum of an Archmage, do they get a Hidden Lore or Thaumatology skill check to get some information about a Threshold upon coming into contact with it and/or do they automatically know the level of a Threshold upon taking any action that results in an opposed roll against it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
I'd use the rules for Permeation category-wise.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
If you're going through the blog thread on the forums almost all links are dead there. Blogspot did a number on me. That said, look on my blog at my credits under the about the author tab. Should have all of them listed there.
Thanks. I figured that out, eventually.

I also found out that Patreon is quite simple to use and registered (is that the term young ones use?) as the highest level of backer you'd allow ($15/month).

But don't worry. As soon as I figure out how to send you a message on Patreon, I'll do my best to make you regret ever accepting a red cent, by wheedling for RPM content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
Just about most of my work that is about magic has rules snuck in for RPM in Pyramid. I have scattered example spells everywhere.
Is there any easy way to get a listing of which Pyramids have articles by you and what they are about?

The Search function on Warehouse23 makes it a horrible chore to attempt to curate content, one of the reasons why I have bought fewer Pyramids than I would if I could more easily discover which ones contain articles I have immediate uses for.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Last edited by Icelander; 12-22-2018 at 06:00 PM.
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2018, 09:44 AM   #54
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Ah. I hadn't realized that aspect.

Well, how does it work for creatures that are Affected by Threshold? Without buying Detect or casting a ritual, what do their ordinary senses and any relevant analytical or thaumaturgical skills tell such beings about the power, features and personality of any Thresholds they come into contact with?

Are all rolls to penetrate a Threshold secret and the beings have no idea whether they were repelled by an ordinary home Threshold or the private sanctum of an Archmage, do they get a Hidden Lore or Thaumatology skill check to get some information about a Threshold upon coming into contact with it and/or do they automatically know the level of a Threshold upon taking any action that results in an opposed roll against it?
Threshold energy is something you can detect if you're affected by it. It's kind of like a 0-point resistible Dread. They get to know it's protected by a threshold, but not necessarily how powerful it is. If you want to change that (and I did for Ceteri) I allow a follow-up Perception-4 roll to peg the rating.

If you're using Mask of Humanity you may wish to consider using the Awareness skill that's in there. That would let you see all manner of oddness and represent a kind of supernatural second sight common to paranormal beings or practitioners of ancient forces.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Thanks. I figured that out, eventually.
Yeah, sorry about that. I've had a lot of stuff to deal with in the past year and this has been the lowest priority on my list (revamping the GURPS content thread of my blog, not the blog itself)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I also found out that Patreon is quite simple to use and registered (is that the term young ones use?) as the highest level of backer you'd allow ($15/month).

But don't worry. As soon as I figure out how to send you a message on Patreon, I'll do my best to make you regret ever accepting a red cent, by wheedling for RPM content.
Heh. I often post RPM content, so no issue here. Thanks for signing up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Is there any easy way to get a listing of which Pyramids have articles by you and what they are about?
Not really. I might be able to put something together later though. You might want to look at this thread though.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2018, 05:07 PM   #55
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
Threshold energy is something you can detect if you're affected by it. It's kind of like a 0-point resistible Dread. They get to know it's protected by a threshold, but not necessarily how powerful it is. If you want to change that (and I did for Ceteri) I allow a follow-up Perception-4 roll to peg the rating.
Both Lucien Lacoste and Edward Alvin Smith have Affected by Threshold limitations on their Magery, representing the Dresden Files -esque limitation on magic-users that if they are not invited into a home with a Threshold, they find it extremely difficult to use magic against the inhabitants.

I'll steal your Per-4 roll to peg Treshold rating, except I'll use Per-based Thaumatology -4 if better than Per-4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
If you're using Mask of Humanity you may wish to consider using the Awareness skill that's in there. That would let you see all manner of oddness and represent a kind of supernatural second sight common to paranormal beings or practitioners of ancient forces.
Done, I'll use that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
Not really. I might be able to put something together later though. You might want to look at this thread though.
Thanks.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2018, 01:05 AM   #56
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Both Lucien Lacoste and Edward Alvin Smith have Affected by Threshold limitations on their Magery, representing the Dresden Files -esque limitation on magic-users that if they are not invited into a home with a Threshold, they find it extremely difficult to use magic against the inhabitants.
Interesting. What did you peg the limitation of that at?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I'll steal your Per-4 roll to peg Treshold rating, except I'll use Per-based Thaumatology -4 if better than Per-4.
I'd probably allow a Per-based Occultism in there too, probably at -6 instead of -4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Done, I'll use that.
It's what I use in Ceteri. It works pretty well.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2018, 01:15 AM   #57
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Fair enough.

Is there any easy way to get a listing of which Pyramids have articles by you and what they are about?
Yes, We have two threads.
This one is a full index of Pyramid 3 right up to the last issue!
Next to it is a Magic issue Index.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2018, 03:50 AM   #58
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

I think I said upthread that Path of Magic was the skill to use on Thresholds - correction, it should be Path of Crossroads since thresholds are door related.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2018, 08:15 AM   #59
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
Interesting. What did you peg the limitation of that at?
I called it a -20% Limitation. Just my unscientific feel for what's fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
I'd probably allow a Per-based Occultism in there too, probably at -6 instead of -4.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
It's what I use in Ceteri. It works pretty well.
As a former homicide detective who gradually came to accept the existence of the supernatural at crime scene after crime scene, Lucien Lacoste is good at Awareness. On the other hand, Edward Alvin Smith, having learned his artifice- and alchemy-based magic in a world without the Facade, does not necessarily have points in it.

The player has like 10 points remaining, ostensibly for defining what rituals Smith knows, but I guess he might spend a couple of them on Awareness. Though with the limitation that he can only work rituals he knows with Ritual Mastery or has a Grimoire for, I'd think he wants to know at least ten spells.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2018, 11:09 AM   #60
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I called it a -20% Limitation. Just my unscientific feel for what's fair.
That seems about right.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ritual, ritual path magic, rpm, thaumatology, vile vortices

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.