GURPS for miniature skirmish games

[Thorbjørn]

Hi
As far as I can search in this fora, there's been multiple attempts at using GURPS for roleplaying (PnP) in Warhammer/WH40k settings. Mostly in a fine quest (IMHO) to replace the dreadful rules of say Dark Heresy with our beloved GURPS, but somehow sticking to the lore/setting of WH40k -which so many of us seem addicted to.

I've been at this on and off for years, but recently took up Kill Team (Games Workshops latest WH40k skirmish miniatures wargame). And this kindled me to dig forth the old notes for this endeavour.

My plan is to use the combat cards from GURPS, as some kind of order-markers the players stick to each of their miniatures each game round. To have each miniature given their own action for each 1.second round.

Also to use the GURPS character point system to balance the opposing warbands, just as pointscost of models and their wargear are used in the GW game.

So instead of having wargear -say a lasgun- cost money, I would have it cost characterpoints.
My first feeble takes on this, have shown me that what is taken to be asimple and basic firearm in the WH40k setting, will cost a horendous amount of points using the GURPS generating the firearm as an innate attack advantage.

Also I'm fooling around with a system for all players placing orders for each of their miniatures at the same time and preferably within a time limit. And then in a later phase of the game round, reveal each order and carry them out. Here I'd have each models initiative(Basic Speed) come into play, as higher beats lower, if timing is essential.
Also I toy around with the idea of letting each model be able to change their ordered action into a new action, as circumstances change on the battlefield around them. But this will require succes on a 3d6 test vs. their Basic Speed(initiative) or possibly Tactics skill.

Tactics skill will also be crucial for how you're allowed to setup your miniatures prior to the start of the engagement.
And Strategy skill I'm planning on determining which gear and skilled specialist soldiers, a warband can muster.

I'll hopefully post something more concrete for you to have a look at and give feedback on soon.
Both more of the general rules set-up and the specific stats for creatures and equipment.

Link to work in progress list of weapons: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

[Kax]

Are you using the GURPS Mass Combat rules at all? 'cos that gives a balance value system.

[Thorbjørn]

Originally Posted by Kax

Are you using the GURPS Mass Combat rules at all? 'cos that gives a balance value system.

Had a look at them about 10 years ago, but I didn't think they fit what I want.
I want it more like a pen'n'table game, like Necromunda, Mordheim & Killteam.
Not a lot of units moving around like a genuine tabletop wargame.

But I'll give it a look again. Especially as I don't recall having seen rules for mass combat in 4th ed. Believe it was 3rd ed. I read those years ago.

[Thorbjørn]

Please take a look at the attached excel file, where I've put a draft for typical WH40k weapons translated to GURPS rules.

Also tried to point valuate them, based on the innate attack advantage p. 61 and the mods for this at p.101+

Comments and ideas for improvements are more than welcome c¨,)

Doh!
How do i attach a file here?

Does this link work?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

[Luke Bunyip]

Originally Posted by Thorbjørn

.... I don't recall having seen rules for mass combat in 4th ed.

I can but recommend checking out Mr Pulver's tome, "GURPS Mass Combat" (for 4th Ed)

[Rolando]

A big stumbling block you have is that it is very hard to translate roleplaying characteristics and specially equipment to miniatures defectiveness (point cost). The cost for GURPS stats have a lot to do with how useful they are in a roleplaying game that is not just about combat.

Also, for starters, no warhammer game is really balanced, additionally models have inflated stats or reduced stats based in some abstracts like availability in a faction, obligatory choice or even meta cases like the cost in real money of the model and how many copies of the model manufactured the company want to sale.

You will be better by trying to translate the stats to GURPS and then using the original point costs for the model you are representing in GURPS, then nudging it up or down a bit for balance considerations. And still it is very difficult to really balance these because the million interactions and synergies that can be achieved.

I would recommend using your guts feeling and the original cost of the model in points as a starting point and use formulaic conversion for translating stats not cost.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by Rolando

A big stumbling block you have is that it is very hard to translate roleplaying characteristics and specially equipment to miniatures defectiveness (point cost). The cost for GURPS stats have a lot to do with how useful they are in a roleplaying game that is not just about combat.

On the other hand, I believe a lot of the costs for combat-related ads and disads are pretty much the same in GURPS 4e as they were in Man-to-Man, its skirmish precursor.

Building beamers and such as Innate Attacks will need some cost revision though, so that the points are more appropriate for only the battlefield than for an adventure campaign.