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Old 12-05-2016, 09:09 AM   #1
RogerBW
 
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Default [Basic] Reputations for bad people

Consider the town bully, or the feared chief of the secret police. He's basically intimidating rather than loved: people do what he wants because they're scared of him, not because they approve of him. In GURPS terms this is a positive reputation - it makes people more likely to obey the person, it boosts Intimidation - but when the town bully shows up with three bullets in him begging for help… well, maybe the town won't be so willing. So I propose this modifier, adapted from Patron:

Grudging: You obtained your Reputation through coercion (e.g., force or intimidation). People provide aid only because there is no other choice, and they definitely do not have your best interests at heart! You will eventually throw your weight around too much (GM's judgment) and flip the Reputation to a negative one: lower your point value accordingly. -50%

Thoughts?
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Old 12-05-2016, 09:13 AM   #2
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Default Re: [Basic] Reputations for bad people

Isn't there a specific instance of social regard for this?
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Old 12-05-2016, 09:22 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Basic] Reputations for bad people

Social Regard (Feared) is something you get from membership of a specific social group, not as an individual. "You are treated well because of what you are, not because of who you are."

I could see that as an argument from precedent that (Grudging) should be a -0% modifier, since SR (Feared) costs the same as SR (Respected), but I'm also thinking of the way everyone dogpiled e.g. Beria once he started to slip from the peak of his power.
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Old 12-05-2016, 09:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: [Basic] Reputations for bad people

I had ball-parked Reluctant/Intimidated for my attempt at redoing the Contacts rules
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...&postcount=185
Quote:
Reluctant/Intimidated- -40%: The PC has threatened, blackmailed or otherwise coerced the Contact. There is a risk that the Contact will report to the authorities or the PC's rival.
This would be a similar deal, I'd say.
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Old 12-05-2016, 09:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: [Basic] Reputations for bad people

I think what you want for this is to have two different Reputations, both applying with the same people: "A dangerous man to cross," for when you're in a position to lean on people, but "A mean SoB," for when you need help. They might be ±1 or ±2. Often they'd cancel out, but sometimes one would apply and sometimes the other.
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Old 12-05-2016, 10:41 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Basic] Reputations for bad people

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerBW
Consider the town bully, or the feared chief of the secret police. He's basically intimidating rather than loved: people do what he wants because they're scared of him, not because they approve of him. In GURPS terms this is a positive reputation - it makes people more likely to obey the person, it boosts Intimidation - but when the town bully shows up with three bullets in him begging for help… well, maybe the town won't be so willing. So I propose this modifier, adapted from Patron:

Grudging: You obtained your Reputation through coercion (e.g., force or intimidation). People provide aid only because there is no other choice, and they definitely do not have your best interests at heart! You will eventually throw your weight around too much (GM's judgment) and flip the Reputation to a negative one: lower your point value accordingly. -50%

Thoughts?
Being the town bully or feared chief of the secret police is a positive reputation in GURPS terms? Where did that come from? In most of my games, those would be negative reputations.

Yes, they are based on being intimidating rather than loved (though that doesn’t preclude having relationships that are based on being loved. I understand Frank di Nitti, head of Murder, Inc., was also a beloved family man.) The difference between a negative and a positive reputation (as I run it) is initial approachability. The first reaction of most people to someone with a positive reputation is to draw closer/pay attention to them. The first reaction to someone with a negative reputation is to hunker down/leave. If the town bully walks into the bar, the first reaction is going to be to maybe finish your drink, pay your bill and, it is to be hoped, get out without him noticing and deciding to make an issue out of it.

People are only willing to obey you if they can’t avoid it. This isn’t precisely a time and distance issue. If the feared chief of secret police has your daughter and has made it clear that she’ll suffer for any missteps you may make, he can send you to Timbuktu for a decade and you’ll be fine with that. On the other hand, if the town bully’s hold on you is purely personal and physical, he may find you’ve had a good long natter with the local constable as soon as you were out of arm’s reach.

In short, I think your solution is in need of a more appropriate problem.
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Old 12-05-2016, 10:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Basic] Reputations for bad people

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Being the town bully or feared chief of the secret police is a positive reputation in GURPS terms? Where did that come from? In most of my games, those would be negative reputations.
Having a negative Reputation makes you less intimidating. It makes your life harder, because people don't help you. And therefore it costs points. None of those things is true of the examples I gave.
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Old 12-05-2016, 02:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Basic] Reputations for bad people

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Being the town bully or feared chief of the secret police is a positive reputation in GURPS terms? Where did that come from?
The way reaction and influence rolls work. If it helps you get people to do what you want them to do, it's a positive reputation.

The real issue is that people with that type of reputation are vulnerable to secret betrayals and being kicked when down, so it's a somewhat fragile bonus.
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Basic] Reputations for bad people

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerBW View Post
Consider the town bully, or the feared chief of the secret police. He's basically intimidating rather than loved: people do what he wants because they're scared of him, not because they approve of him. In GURPS terms this is a positive reputation - it makes people more likely to obey the person, it boosts Intimidation - but when the town bully shows up with three bullets in him begging for help… well, maybe the town won't be so willing. So I propose this modifier, adapted from Patron:

Grudging: You obtained your Reputation through coercion (e.g., force or intimidation). People provide aid only because there is no other choice, and they definitely do not have your best interests at heart! You will eventually throw your weight around too much (GM's judgment) and flip the Reputation to a negative one: lower your point value accordingly. -50%

Thoughts?
I like it. It's a nice analogue to Unwilling on Allies/Patron and if enforced properly could be a headache - as limitations should be. Reminds me of what Biff from Back to the Future might have. Maybe give a hard number for when too much is too much? Perhaps 6 or less on 3d?
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Basic] Reputations for bad people

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
I like it. It's a nice analogue to Unwilling on Allies/Patron and if enforced properly could be a headache - as limitations should be. Reminds me of what Biff from Back to the Future might have. Maybe give a hard number for when too much is too much? Perhaps 6 or less on 3d?
Looking at it as two separate reputations, as it might be a +1 and a -2, I got the cost by assuming that the positive one would be available ~75% of the time.

The Unwilling Patron vanishes, it's suggested, on a natural 18. Perhaps the Grudging Reputation flips when someone rolls a natural 3 on their reaction to the holder?
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