Wealth between Poor and Dead Broke

[Brandy]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Yes, but that means you're not saving the appearances. Such a rule would have to be a house rule.

The OP's question is ISO a house rule, no?

With regard to "saving the appearances", none of the values below Filthy Rich are exact matches for the formula; all are rounded. The formula gives a value approximate to that of RAW in many cases. It seems no more problematic to me that the formula yields 10% for dead broke than that it gives a factor of x6.3 instead of x5 for wealthy.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Brandy

The OP's question is ISO a house rule, no?

Sure, but introducing one change in the rules does not mean you want to introduce unlimited changes in the rules. I've done this sort of thing a lot of times when writing supplements; I try to follow Occam's razor.

[Brandy]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Sure, but introducing one change in the rules does not mean you want to introduce unlimited changes in the rules. I've done this sort of thing a lot of times when writing supplements; I try to follow Occam's razor.

Oh, I think I see. You thought I was saying "...and therefore Dead Broke should be 10% starting wealth." I wasn't. I was showing that the formula gives approximately the same values, but not exactly the same values. Perhaps using Wealthy (6.31 versus 5) as the example would have served my purpose better.

I wasn't suggesting a house rule, just trying to provide an answer to the OP and incidentally providing a guideline for other possible values as well.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Why would you need a level between Poor and Dead Broke? If it's about starting wealth, just take Dead Broke and spend one character point on Trading Points for Money to get 1/10 the campaign's average starting wealth, which is exactly halfway between the 1/5 of Poor and the 0 of Dead Broke.

Because in Points Accounting, you're only allowed so many Disads and thus only so many Ads...

In other words, sometimes a lesser Disadvantage is more 'points optimal' than a higher value disad that requires you to offset it by spending points elsewhere.

Originally Posted by whswhs

I don't think you can do that if you're Dead Broke.

It's explicitly called out as not allowed in DF and DFRPG.

On the inverse, Signature Gear is allowed alongside Dead Broke in DF (also in DFRPG, but as Sig Gear gives no money in DFRPG this is less of an issue).

[Stormcrow]

Dead Broke doesn't just mean "starts with no cash." It also means "doesn't have a job, can't get credit, doesn't own anything" and so on. There's no reason you can't start with 10% of average starting wealth for one character point and Dead Broke: you have no job and no credit, but you have a small pile of cash with which to buy stuff. But it won't last, because you have no income.

Take a TL3 setting. Average starting wealth is $1,000, so 1 character point buys $100. Dead Broke plus $100, with no income, no job, and no property doesn't seem broken to me.

P.S.: I wouldn't use Dungeon Fantasy as a guide to the general case, since I believe Dungeon Fantasy specifically uses Wealth only for starting cash.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

I believe Dungeon Fantasy specifically uses Wealth only for starting cash.

I think DF also uses it as a multiplier for selling prices in town. Poor folks just aren't able to get as much for those idols and tapestries and lab equipment and whatever they haul home.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

I think DF also uses it as a multiplier for selling prices in town. Poor folks just aren't able to get as much for those idols and tapestries and lab equipment and whatever they haul home.

Yeah, Wealth has very long term implications in DF for your Character's ability to generate revenue as a Murder Hobo.

[Pursuivant]

Assuming a level of Poverty exists which is called "Very Poor" and costs -20 points, it has to combine the effects of Dead Broke and Poor.

Either:

1) You're Dead Broke except that you can have a few possessions bought with 1/20 (or 1/6) of starting wealth. You have no job and no prospect of getting one.

This works well for "survivor" type characters, as well as mendicant holy men, and non-human entities who carry a weapon and nothing else.

2) You start the game Dead Broke, except that you can find jobs which provide a Poor income. However, for some reason, your monthly disposable income (after subtracting costs of food, shelter, etc.), is 1/20 of normal for your job.

This suits refugees and poor people who have just suffered a catastrophe, such as being evicted without notice. It also works for slaves, beggars, and holy men with Disciplines of Faith (Asceticism) and/or Vow (Extreme Poverty).

[Phantasm]

I would use a Very Poor x1/20 Wealth to represent folks living in abject poverty in sci-fi settings where even those with Poor Wealth can live at what to us is a Status 0 cost of living. I would not use it in low-tech worlds such as DF, because there's really no point.

That of course assumes you don't rework the interaction between Starting Wealth, Monthly Income, Status, and Cost of Living in a cyberpunk or Battlestar Trekwarslon 5 type game.

[Bicorn]

Thanks for the replies so far. I think 1/20 feels like the best choice to me, as a few people noted it makes the multipliers symmetrical and symmetry is always pleasing. (Even if the costs aren't.)