DF Artillery Mages Noodling

[martinl]

In a different forum, the issue of DF artillery mages came up again, and I was induced to actually type out some musings I've had wrt Artillery Mages. Basically, I have been tempted from time to time to work up a missile spell equivalent to Heroic Archer or Weapon Master that makes missile spell specialization pew pew or boom boom wizards into a viable niche.

Something along the lines of:

Artillery Mage [20/30/40]
You are exceptionally talented at using missile spells in combat. This has several benefits:

• You can "Quick Draw" a missile spell (equivalent to 1 turn of build) and attack with it the same turn. This gives you -3 on both rolls (spellcasting and attack). This counts as an attack action.
• If you have a wand in your hand while attacking with a missile you may add an additional +1 to acc. You can also add the acc of a missile spell without aiming if you didn't move this turn. (Further turns of aiming have their usual effects, you just get the first turn for free). Special wands might add more, but are costly and/or rare.
• I you have a staff in hand while building a missile spell, you may reduce the casting cost by an additional 1 pt.

This advantage costs 20 pts if it only applies to one missile spell, 30 for a whole college, and 40 for all missiles.

This should allow DF level wizards to pew pew effectively every turn for 30-40 extra points. However, it may not be balanced and worse it steps on the scouts' toes. OTTH, it doesn't outright negate the scout, is expensive, and recreates a traditional dungeon niche.

Since I'm not running DF right now, it remains a temptation.

Thoughts?

[Kromm]

Hmm . . . Quick, accurate fire is almost the opposite of the classic artillery mage. In old-timey dungeon fantasy, such a mage's job was to sling long-casting-time area-effect spells that blasted everything indiscriminately. For instance, the old AD&D Fireball ("Fire Ball," if you look back far enough!) took three segments to cast to Magic Missile's one segment, and lobbed one explosive missile, not a machine-gun-like spray of projectiles. It was slow enough that interruption was a concern, so the mage needed the now-traditional screen of fighters to protect him while casting. Thanks to the way early tactical combat worked, the projectile could be lobbed over intervening friendlies who were doing this job.

In light of that, I might go for effects more like these:

Artillery Mage

1 point/level

You can enhance Missile spells (and only those spells) with certain ranged-combat enhancements from the GURPS Basic Set. Each level of Artillery Mage lets you apply +1% in the form of any of the following modifiers, at no extra energy cost or penalty to cast:

• Area Effect* (+50%/level).
• Delay (+10% or +20%).
• Explosion* (+50%/level). Treat Missile spells that are already explosive as having the first level of this enhancement.
• Guided† (+50%).
• Homing, Ordinary Vision† (+50%).
• Incendiary (+10%). On a tight-beam burning Missile spell, this removes the 1/10 damage divisor used with Making Things Burn (p. B433). On a regular burning Missile spell, this shifts the flammability class up one step.
• Increased Range (+10%/level).
• Overhead (+30%).

* Area Effect and Explosion are mutually exclusive.
† Guided and Homing are mutually exclusive.

Optionally, the GM may also allow Ricochet (+10%) from GURPS Powers.

You must choose your enhancements when you start casting the spell. If you change your mind, you must start over. If you've already created a Missile spell with a set of enhancements, they're "locked in" from that point on!

Otherwise, the modified spell works as usual. There's no effect on casting time, damage dice, energy cost, etc. Defensive spells affect it normally.

The cost may need adjustment . . . playtesting would be good for something like this. Maybe that should be +2% per level, or even +5%.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Kromm

The cost may need adjustment . . . playtesting would be good for something like this. Maybe that should be +2% per level, or even +5%.

+1% is too expensive - I wouldn't want to pay 50 points to have Explosive Fireball instead of just buying the spell. +5% is probably better - 10 points seems fair, if you have to choose which enhancement you're good at.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

+1% is too expensive - I wouldn't want to pay 50 points to have Explosive Fireball instead of just buying the spell. +5% is probably better - 10 points seems fair, if you have to choose which enhancement you're good at.

To be clear: This affects all your Missile spells, and you choose the enhancements you're using each time you cast, not when you buy the ability. But yeah . . . maybe 1 point per +1% is too steep. At +5%, somebody with Heroic Archer-level points could get +100% in enhancements, which might be too good. I'm not sure.

[A Ladder]

Couldn't it be possible to get Compartmentalized Mind (with whatever -% for missile spells only) so that they could cast and lob fireballs on the same turn.

That's the route I would take.

*I don't have my books on me so I can't look up point cost, but if i remember correctly it would be similar in point total to Heroic Archer + Weapon Master Bow.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Kromm

To be clear: This affects all your Missile spells, and you choose the enhancements you're using each time you cast, not when you buy the ability. But yeah . . . maybe 1 point per +1% is too steep. At +5%, somebody with Heroic Archer-level points could get +100% in enhancements, which might be too good. I'm not sure.

Okay, in that case, +1% seems fair - 50 points for "I can do all sorts of wackiness with my missile spells and choose as I need them, for no extra cost" is a bargain in DF.

[martinl]

I can see some appeal in better replicating the big game changer spells, but IME DF already does that fairly well. A three turn maxxed missile spell from a Magery 6 mage does that nicely, as well as a lot of the area spells.

The thing that I have personally experienced, and have seen several complaints about, it the deficit of actions for arty mages. Existing missile spells are more or less built to force ROF 1/2 or lower, and IME that deters their use a lot. Players like to take a significant action every round. Non boss fights tend to be short. Old school delvers in Other Games tended to have the option of one spell per round, and at higher levels as emulated in DF, often just did that. GURPS missile mages don't.

Realistic bows have the same problem but we have Heroic Archer to make a valid archer delver. Scouts don't make other delvers obsolete with their rapid bowfire though, so I don't think rapid "fire"fire would be intrinsically worse if it had a fair CP cost to damage return.

So I guess I'm just saying that I'd like to be able to make throwing a missile spell every turn a reasonable niche for a Wizard. Not overpowered, not niche stealing, but reasonable. It might not be what everyone wants, but I don't think I'm alone either. Not that you need to stop talking about "big arty" here - go ahead. It's just not what I'm interested in.

All that said, "artillery" might be exactly the wrong word here. "Riflemage" is wrong too though. "Warmage?" "Blaster Mage?" "Missileer?" "Missilseer?"

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Kromm

You must choose your enhancements when you start casting the spell. If you change your mind, you must start over. If you've already created a Missile spell with a set of enhancements, they're "locked in" from that point on!

OK, I lied, I am a little interested in this, and I have an issue: the way that is designed gives big piles of options that can be chosen anew every time a spell is cast. Requires a lot of player and GM discipline to keep the game running fast.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by martinl

OK, I lied, I am a little interested in this, and I have an issue: the way that is designed gives big piles of options that can be chosen anew every time a spell is cast. Requires a lot of player and GM discipline to keep the game running fast.

"Until further notice, every missile I cast is [insert modifier here]" saves a good bit of time, and works for most situations. Just remember to say you're NOT doing explosive when you try to snipe the gnoll in your archer's face.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by martinl

OK, I lied, I am a little interested in this, and I have an issue: the way that is designed gives big piles of options that can be chosen anew every time a spell is cast. Requires a lot of player and GM discipline to keep the game running fast.

I see your point, but then I'm reminded that warriors have tons of options: Swing or thrust with my weapon, shove or slam using my shield, or maybe toss in a kick or a grapple just for fun? Use Attack, Move and Attack, or one of four flavors of All-Out Attack . . . or even bug the GM to let me try Committed Attack or Defensive Attack? Make the blow a Deceptive Attack? Aim for a hit location or try to disarm? Risk a Dual-Weapon Attack or a Rapid Strike? Invoke one of my combat power-ups?

This trait gives wizards a little more choice in combat. Yes, they already get to choose spells, but in practice they fall back on a few of those. I imagine that they would do the same with this advantage: settle on favorite enhancement bundles. However, spells crossed with enhancements could at least make combat less boring for mages. I personally think that "toss a blast of energy every turn" is terribly boring, which is why I'm not in love with an approach that goes in that direction.