Towering main-gauche

[platimus]

Originally Posted by hcobb

The Main-gauche was historically the thing to carry alongside a rapier. Why did it displace the small shield if it is somehow more encumbering for the same or less protection?

Also, what happens to the rapier and cestus user?

Yep. Those are questions I asked myself before formulating my ruling. Good points.

EDIT
For the record, I like allowing a cestus to be used to parry one-handed weapon attacks (like the main-gauche) but without hit-stoppage if the attack still succeeds. I'm inclined to deny it a 2-hit stoppage when used with a rapier under Fencer and Two-Weapon talent benefits but I have no strong opinion on the subject...yet :)

Q: Can one wield a one-handed weapon in a hand that is wearing a cestus?

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by platimus

Q: Can one wield a one-handed weapon in a hand that is wearing a cestus?

No. See page 113.

Reference image for these brass knuckles on steroids:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B...inal_hands.jpg

[platimus]

Originally Posted by hcobb

No. See page 113.

Reference image for these brass knuckles on steroids:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B...inal_hands.jpg

Ah, Thanks. After re-reading that paragraph, I guess I will treat a cestus just like a main-gauche (as it says to do) and let it stop 1 hit or 2 hits with Fencer/Two-Weapon.

[larsdangly]

A reason to go with a -1 DX penalty with a main gauche is that it has a special ability (deliver a second attack while keeping the -1 protection) yet requires no Unusual Weapon talent. Generally speaking, the balance of play in Melee is maintained through a careful balancing of all advantages with proportional costs or disadvantages. If a main gauche were functionally the same as a small shield I'd say it should have a 0 DX penalty (otherwise it would be superfluous). But it isn't; a main gauche gets a 1d-1 damage second attack as well, at a modest DX penalty. There has to be some sort of cost or disadvantage to compensate for this.

[platimus]

The -4 DX for the second (main-gauche) attack is enough balance for me. If I reach a point where I feel it isn't enough, I'll make it -5 DX :)

[larsdangly]

There is no implication in the Left Handed weapons section that you have any penalty on your main attack when you deliver a secondary attack with your Main Gauche. So, that -4 attack is still pure gravy. I think it is out of keeping with the rest of the equipment if you get this, plus 1pt protection, with no special talent required and no DX penalty. That's why I agree with the Advanced Melee suggestion that it incur a -1 DX penalty.

[platimus]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

There is no implication in the Left Handed weapons section that you have any penalty on your main attack when you deliver a secondary attack with your Main Gauche. So, that -4 attack is still pure gravy. I think it is out of keeping with the rest of the equipment if you get this, plus 1pt protection, with no special talent required and no DX penalty. That's why I agree with the Advanced Melee suggestion that it incur a -1 DX penalty.

Again, we seem to have a misunderstanding.

ITL p. 111

Left-Hand Weapons
The left-hand dagger, or main-gauche, acts as a shield to
parry 1 hit per attack, from non-missile, one-handed weapons
only, from your front hexes. If you take an attack option,
you can also make a separate dagger attack against the same
enemy. It is rolled at -4 DX.
A figure with the Two Weapons talent can fight effectively
with a regular weapon in each hand. A person who does not
have this talent may attempt the same feat, but his DX will be
-6 for each attack, and he gets no defensive advantage

Where is this gravy you speak of?

[larsdangly]

It seems clear to me. The text explicitly tells you that if you take the attack option you ALSO get a second attack with the Main Gauche delivered with a -4 DX adjustment. Unless you impose some additional house rules on top of what is written, your choices are either: get 1 pt of protection and attack normally with your main weapon, or get 1 pt of protection, attack normally with your main weapon, AND attack at -4 DX with the main-gauche. Any sensible person would normally do the latter, and would prefer to do this over having a small shield if the two had the same requirements and penalties.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

Any sensible person would normally do the latter, and would prefer to do this over having a small shield if the two had the same requirements and penalties.

What is the talent to use the main-gauche?

I'm willing to live with -1 DX if you use the Shield talent for the main-guache and no penalty if you use Fencer. Otherwise you get the situation where a Fencer can use a main-gauche, except that the main-gauche lowers his DX so he can't use Fencer.

The buckler is of course much more useful when dodging towards the Light Crossbow sniper because it applies the -1 DX benefit from Shield Expertise.

[larsdangly]

'Sword' or 'Knife' are effectively the two talents you can use to fight with a Main Gauche. So, actually, it requires less investment to fight with sword and main gauche than to fight with any one handed weapon plus a small shield. Another reason why the -1 DX penalty for Main Gauche feels to me like the right call.