Help implementing spotting feints

Pg 101 of Martial Arts says that the GM should not tell the players when an npc successfully feints. He should lead them to believe the npc just missed.

Does this mean that he just missed his normal attack? Or missed his feint roll? And if the former, how do you hide something from your players that requires a quick contest of skills?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Fez

Pg 101 of Martial Arts says that the GM should not tell the players when an npc successfully feints. He should lead them to believe the npc just missed.

Does this mean that he just missed his normal attack? Or missed his feint roll? And if the former, how do you hide something from your players that requires a quick contest of skills?

"missed his feint roll" doesn't actually mean anything. There is no feint roll that can be missed. The former works fine, as a missed attack (in the normal rules) has no effect on the player or player character.


You could partially hide something requiring a quick contest by lying about what the quick contest means, but that doesn't seem to be useful in this case.

[vicky_molokh]

IMHO delaying the Feint contest until the first time when the results of the contest would matter (i.e. right before the Defence roll on the next turn) is the best solution.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

IMHO delaying the Feint contest until the first time when the results of the contest would matter (i.e. right before the Defence roll on the next turn) is the best solution.

That's definitely part of the solution, but you also need to not disclose that there was a feint before that point, which means dissembling about the feinting party's action.

[kenclary]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

That's definitely part of the solution, but you also need to not disclose that there was a feint before that point, which means dissembling about the feinting party's action.

Not necessarily. "He does something tricky to try to make an opening" works as an explanation.

[Bruno]

GM: *rolls some dice, pretends to look at them* "Darth George takes a swing at you and misses!"
*time passes*
GM: "So, Darth George's miss was actually a Feint. Roll to resist!" *Rolls the real roll for Darth George, compares to PCs roll*

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Bruno

GM: *rolls some dice, pretends to look at them* "Darth George takes a swing at you and misses!"
*time passes*
GM: "So, Darth George's miss was actually a Feint. Roll to resist!" *Rolls the real roll for Darth George, compares to PCs roll*

Yeah, that seems to be the intent of the rule as written. The only "problem" is that a "feint" isn't always a fake attack, and really GURPS combats can only be related in descriptive terms after they are over.

[Dammann]

I suppose the idea is that a character would not defend against the attack as if they'd had complete knowledge of the feint, so keeping the player misinformed helps bring about that kind of reaction. I'd say that it is a solution to a problem that may not exist. Some players compartmentalize player knowledge pretty scrupulously.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Dammann

I suppose the idea is that a character would not defend against the attack as if they'd had complete knowledge of the feint, so keeping the player misinformed helps bring about that kind of reaction. I'd say that it is a solution to a problem that may not exist. Some players compartmentalize player knowledge pretty scrupulously.

Yeah this is one of those weird little meta-game things that show up in GURPS every once in a while that probably should be more of a suggestion than a rule.

[ErhnamDJ]

I roll both rolls myself.

Think about it: When a player makes a Feint, do they have to wait until they actually attack to find out how they did on the Feint? That's not have I play it. You Feint, you roll right then. You know if you succeeded or not, and by how much.

What you guys are doing with the Feints, where the roll doesn't occur until you try to attack with the Feint, is different. You don't know if you need to take another Feint because the first one was bad.