Feint Question

[Allenwpax]

Guys,

If you have Feint at Judo+4 and you have Arm Lock technique at Judo+4 would your Feint with Arm Lock be at Judo +8?

Thanks,
Allen

[Turhan's Bey Company]

You can't feint with another technique. Feint is a maneuver based on an underlying weapon or unarmed combat skill. In this case, it's Judo, so you're rolling against Judo+4. There's no direct interaction between the feint and the arm lock.

[Allenwpax]

Guys,

I found the answer in MA page 64 "Using Techniques Together". You can use the techniques together, you do add the relative levels.

Allen

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Allenwpax

Guys,

I found the answer in MA page 64 "Using Techniques Together". You can use the techniques together, you do add the relative levels.

Allen

That doesn't apply in the specific case you asked about, because Feint is not a valid combination with Arm Lock; they are two separate actions. Now, if you had Feint at +4 and Dual-Weapon Attack at +4 (by using Technique Mastery) then, by RAW, you could make a Feint-and-Attack at +8 and +4, respectively. Likewise with other techniques that can exceed prerequisite skill and can be used together - Counter Strike (w/ TM) plus Disarm for example, or Spinning Kick plus Lethal Kick (w/ TM on both) - it becomes possible to stack up the technique modifiers for impressive overall bonuses.

Of course, this stinks of munchkinism, so many GMs (myself included) will restrict the use of Technique Mastery. For example, the houserule that I've considered is to only apply the lowest bonus provided by TM. The character with Feint +4 and DWA(TM) +4 would only get the "natural" +4 provided by Feint; to get it up to +8 he'd need to buy the max TM bonus on both techniques - he'd have Feint +8 and DWA +4, but when combined he'd still only receive Feint +8. Likewise, the character with Spinning Kick and Lethal Kick both raised to +4 would get only +4 if using them together; if one was +4 and the other +0, he'd get +0 when they're combined, though if used separately the Mastered technique would count its full +4.

Sorry if that tangent made no sense... I'm still fiddling with it and trying to find the best way to explain it.

[Allenwpax]

Hmm, you are saying for example you could not feint with a kick or essentially if you did you would not have to count the normal -2 to skill for kicking because you are just feinting with Karate not really kicking.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Allenwpax

Hmm, you are saying for example you could not feint with a kick or essentially if you did you would not have to count the normal -2 to skill for kicking because you are just feinting with Karate not really kicking.

That is the gist of it.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Allenwpax

Hmm, you are saying for example you could not feint with a kick or essentially if you did you would not have to count the normal -2 to skill for kicking because you are just feinting with Karate not really kicking.

That's right. Feinting uses a completely separate set of techniques from attacks. The only techniques that stack with Feint are, I believe, the techniques used to buy off circumstance penalties, like Ground Fighting and Cavalry Training.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Allenwpax

Guys,

I found the answer in MA page 64 "Using Techniques Together". You can use the techniques together, you do add the relative levels.

Allen

As others have mentioned, this isn't how it works for Feint. Feint is not meant to be one of the techniques covered by that rule - that rule is mainly for postural and handedness techniques, not for combining any and all techniques together. We didn't make a hard and fast list, because it's subject to GM decisions and needs to cover as-yet-unwritten techniques. But allowing Arm Lock to stack with Feint is beyond the intent of the rule.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

As others have mentioned, this isn't how it works for Feint. Feint is not meant to be one of the techniques covered by that rule - that rule is mainly for postural and handedness techniques, not for combining any and all techniques together. We didn't make a hard and fast list, because it's subject to GM decisions and needs to cover as-yet-unwritten techniques. But allowing Arm Lock to stack with Feint is beyond the intent of the rule.

But you can dual weapon attack into a feint and attack (and I would allow you to raise DWA to do so in a realistic game without ANY requisites, be it TBAM/WM or Special Training). The thing here, is that a feint is a completely different kind of attack compared to any other attack. You can't do lethal strike+kick for a lethal kick, you need lethal kick+kick. BTW, in my DF campaign, I made a kickass Chaos Monk (from DF14) foe who specialized into flying leap powered dual flying spinning lethal kicks. No, this wasn't an inspiration...

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

But you can dual weapon attack into a feint and attack (and I would allow you to raise DWA to do so in a realistic game without ANY requisites, be it TBAM/WM or Special Training).

Yes, you can. Does that contradict what I said?