Feint.

[Fwibos]

Originally Posted by Icelander

In a contest between foes of more or less equal skill, the ability to force an AoA is at least as valuable as the standard Feint.

Can you feint in a way that looks like you AoA'd or feinted, and what advantage could that serve IRL (aside from playing the player)?

"It's clear he's trying to feint you"
Drat! Well, since my defense is down, AoA!

SUCKER! HE STABINATES YOU with his +5 DONKEY STABBER...

My inner GM dialogue is skipping some steps and acting the douche... but the question remains.

Aren't their rules for running into a sword somewhere?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Mathulhu

We have always played that a feint is announced when the action takes place, but it is resolved just before the action that depends on it.

That's pretty much what Spotting Feints (Martial Arts, p. 101) recommends. Once you get into the habit, it actually feels more natural, too – it isn't a lot different from Evaluate or Aim, in the sense that it's an effect of a previous maneuver that doesn't require action until the turn on which an attack is made. To be honest, it feels slightly odd resolving it immediately (as in the Basic Set) and not when the attack roll is made (as in Martial Arts).

[Kromm]

I should add that another nice effect of rolling for the Feint on the turn of the attack is that it's a way to impose nominal morale effects on PCs who are facing scary foes. When I say, "He feints," and the player knows the foe is a fighter of phenomenal skill, the player may well have the PC disengage without knowing who has won or by how much. In effect, the menacing NPC's manifest superiority breaks the PC's morale regardless of the dice. This can be very useful when the NPC is spearheading an effort to force the PCs away from an objective or toward a trap. Frightening attacks that encourage retreats on active defense rolls are the other method I find useful here.

I realize that not all GMs like these sorts of mind games, but I love them. My usual answer when somebody asks, "How good is he?", is something like, "It seems likely that he's very good, given that the Big Bad sent him to kill you, and knows how good you are. Care to take an Evaluate maneuver to watch him fight?" I also don't tell the players how many shots were fired at them by an automatic weapon, or how big the magazine looks, unless the PC is actively watching instead of fighting, so they're never quite sure whether the bad guy is dry. Things like this provoke hesitancy, defensiveness, and even flight. I guess I'm just a jerk that way. ;)

[Fwibos]

Let me wrap my tiny brain around this:

Would using spotting feints be used thusly?

Assume when each speaks, it is their turn:

PC: I feint
Mookie Mookerton: I defensively attack
Decide if defensive or Offensive feint
Roll Quick Contest for Feint
Roll Mookie's attack

Looks like the only thing here keeping the GM from using wait is how well Mookie can spot it. That actually works pretty well.

Now, when used on PCs, we assume Awesomesauce Mookerton (Mookie's brother) barely misses, and then when the GM says "He feinted," the PCs get the "Oh Crap"-look.

[kenclary]

Originally Posted by Witchking

Too Much Information. Since they 'know' they have been successfully Feinted they make moves they would not normally make.

Really the mechanics (IMHO) are fine. Just (short of a near critical failure) players/NPC's being Feinted should not be told/aware of that fact.

FWIW, there exist types of feints that make sense as things the opponent would be aware of. A feint isn't an illusion spell - it's just, generally, a way to "throw off" an opponent. It's quite rational for an experienced fighter to know that their balance/timing/position has been thrown off, and it's rational that they might act on that knowledge (choose to AoD, move out of range, etc.). That reaction might even be more tactically beneficial to the feinter, in the long run.

The Spotting Feints options in MA are fine and good, but not necessary to keep the game sane.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by kenclary

FWIW, there exist types of feints that make sense as things the opponent would be aware of. A feint isn't an illusion spell - it's just, generally, a way to "throw off" an opponent. It's quite rational for an experienced fighter to know that their balance/timing/position has been thrown off, and it's rational that they might act on that knowledge (choose to AoD, move out of range, etc.). That reaction might even be more tactically beneficial to the feinter, in the long run.

Yes. And stuff like Beats will be extremely obvious.

It's fair to conceal a Feint attempt, but it's just as interesting to say "You've been Feinted, right before his next turn we'll roll the contest" and see how they react. Do they tough it out? Do something risky? Run away?

[Walrus]

Originally Posted by kenclary

It's quite rational for an experienced fighter to know that their balance/timing/position has been thrown off

This just means that Feint failed due to foe having more skill than fencer.

[kenclary]

Originally Posted by Walrus

This just means that Feint failed due to foe having more skill than fencer.

If the feint fails, the target isn't thrown off at all.

(Feints aren't an attack against Perception, they're an attack against reflexes.)

[martinl]

My observation with respect to feint vs deceptive attacks:

If you feint, 1 point of skill can give you up to 1 pt of defense reduction on half your actions, while deceptive attack reduces defense by 0.5 pts per point of skill on all your actions.

This makes DA look better, especially if skill levels are similar, but it's more complicated than that since GURPS isn't linear. Your chance to connect is roughly:

(Chance to succeed skill roll)*(Chance target fails to defend). [*(Chance to punch through other defenses, often DR), but we'll neglect this last factor for now since neither maneuver directly affects these.]

Usually you want a maximum product. If your skill is high and defenses are middlin (fairly common), the 3d6 bell curve makes DAs very good for increasing overall hit chance. If both defenses and skill are high (less common, but by no means unknown) feint gives more hits. (Note that in G3e, PD made high defenses more common.)

Of course, it's more complicated than that, but as a first approximation, that's where I see the relative roles of the two.