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Old 05-08-2005, 01:38 AM   #11
Der Wanderer
 
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Default Re: Cosmetic Shapeshifting Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie the Technomancer
All of these are just cosmetic change, so I don't know why they wouldn't be allowed. Weight has to stay the same, otherwise this is NOT cosmetic. Yes, it could look bizarre if there is a way to note the weight of someone, but it's part of the -50% limitation.
So Cosmetic -50% contains:
Mass conservation -20%
Retains Shape -20%
Cannot use innate Abilities/Advantages of Alternate Forms -10%

So for only a -10% discount you cannot use the Acute senses of an Elf, the Water Breathing from a Merfolk etc.? I always thought that Mass conservation and Retains Shape are not included into Cosmic and therefore listet additionally. So why is there a combo limitation instead of the -10% Cannot use innate Abilities/Advantages of Alternate Forms?
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Old 05-08-2005, 02:00 AM   #12
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Default Re: Cosmetic Shapeshifting Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Wanderer
So Cosmetic -50% contains:
Retains Shape -20%
According to B85 Retains Shape is a _seperate_ limitation.

Last edited by Pomphis; 05-08-2005 at 02:01 AM. Reason: spelling corrected
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Old 05-08-2005, 04:38 AM   #13
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Default Re: Cosmetic Shapeshifting Questions

So it DOES alter your weight?
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Old 05-08-2005, 01:11 PM   #14
Der Wanderer
 
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Default Re: Cosmetic Shapeshifting Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomphis
According to B85 Retains Shape is a _seperate_ limitation.
Yup, my point I was just taking Cosmetic appart and it obviously includes Retains Shape and Mass conservation (See posts by Kromm and Ellie). If we subtract the two from Cosmetic we get:
-10% Can only Morph into a different member of the same Race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
A human with the Cosmetic limitation can't become an ant or a giant. He's limited to looking like a human . . . just a different human. That's why Cosmetic is such a big discount
I think its not a big discount!!! for 10 points more (Morph (Retains Shape -20%, Mass conservation -20%) 60CP) one can cross species (with same SM and basically same Body Layout) AND use their innate abilities!!!
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Old 05-08-2005, 01:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Cosmetic Shapeshifting Questions

Well, in my games, cosmetic would allow you to take any shape you wish, but while keeping the template. It would act, basically, as an illusion disguise that can not be breaked, and that does not require that you fit into it.

An example of that kind of morph would bee the pig-like character in dragon ball. He can look like an ogre to scare people, but he does not have the ogre's strength.
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Old 05-09-2005, 01:38 AM   #16
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Default Re: Cosmetic Shapeshifting Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Wanderer
Yup, my point I was just taking Cosmetic appart and it obviously includes Retains Shape and Mass conservation
If that would be the case it should be impossible to get Retains Shape in addition to Cosmetic. But according to B85 you can get both. So _everybody_ who gets Cosmetic would get Retains Shape as well to get the additional point savings, as Retains Shape would not include any actual additional limitation on abilities. So either this assumption seems to be wrong or B85 should be errataed.
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Old 05-09-2005, 07:28 AM   #17
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Default Re: Cosmetic Shapeshifting Questions

I'm a bit confused by the text, myself. Let's look at Morph. Suppose I want to create a character like those guys on the X-Files. Can take on the appearance of any normal human they've touched. Their mass apparently doesn't change.

Let me get it clear. The point cost, after that base of +100pts is a sort of pool you have to spend on temporary acquisition of that racial template.

This is enhanced or limited in the normal way for powers.

So, suppose that I just wanted to be able to look like any normal human. That'd be 12 points - for any Appearance up to "Handsome/Beautiful (+12pts)". That lets me go down to Ugly (-8 pts), too? Suppose I only want to be able to go down to Ugly, and not a good Appearance, I'm assuming that wouldn't have zero cost, yeah? I have to spend 8pts to be able to do negative stuff, too?

Suppose I want to be able to look Skinny or Fat? Those are all negatives, I assume I have to pay points for them, too? So, anything up to Skinny or Very Fat, those are -5pts. So that brings the Shapeshifting Advantage to +113 pts (Appearance from Ugly to Handsome, Build from Skinny to Fat). Right so far?

Now, what if I want to be able to change outward gender (I presume the advantage doesn't change you on a cellular level, it does say you pop back to normal form if you're knocked out or killed). I presume gender change is the Hemamphromorph advantage, yeah? +5 pts. So it's now,

Shapeshifting (Appearance Ugly to Handsome, Build Skinny to Fat, Either gender), +118pts.

Well, all I want to be able to do is to look like any other human. I don't care if I have their DX or something, I'm happy with my own. So I take the limitations Cosmetic (-50%), Mass Conservation (-20%) and Retains Shape (-20%). That exceeds the -80% maximum, so it's just -80% of limitations. So the +118pts cost becomes +24pts.

Does this seem right? Again, what about if a person only wants to change to a form with weaker stats? Like, if you turn into a mouse then you have small Size, low ST, etc. You still have that minimum of 15pts, or 100pts?

To me, those five columns look a bit like the Magic system does. It looks like it was a whole chapter originally, and our friend Dr Kromm condensed it down, so we could hear the magic words, "it'll be in Powers":)
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Old 05-09-2005, 09:29 AM   #18
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Default Re: Cosmetic Shapeshifting Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha
I thought this discussion was in reference to Shapeshifting or Morph, not illusionary disguise?

If you shift into an elf with big pointy ears, then when someone grabs your ears, they really grab your ears.
Of course, you're right.
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Old 05-10-2005, 11:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: Cosmetic Shapeshifting Questions

Well now, if Cosmetic included Retains Shape and Mass Conservation, noone in his right mind would purchase the Cosmetic limitation, istead of going for those two... those few points do not matter. To get the same discount, he could slap on another limitation and be better off.
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Old 07-09-2020, 07:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: Cosmetic Shapeshifting Questions

For the record, if you wanted cosmetic + SM change for a shapeshift, how would you do it? Seems like the way to go would be to use growth/shrink with of extra charge for shrink if you want to keep the same abilities, and to growth if you want to buff up. Then link shapeshift & growth/shrink for 10% more.

Last edited by elco2; 07-10-2020 at 12:37 AM.
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