01-17-2018, 10:34 AM | #61 |
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: South Lyon, MI
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
I'm the same. The whole laser/cm concept never appealed to me, but I like the rest. I also use the items from the later supplements (revetments, etc.).
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That which does not destroy me, makes me stronger. - Nietzsche That which does not destroy me, missed. - Anonymous war gamer |
01-25-2018, 04:38 AM | #62 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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Should this be "does move" or "does not move"? I really like the simultaneous Hold Fire Rule. I hope it's officially adopted if it proves viable and compliments the game...and finds it's way into the OGRE PC game. I have a Custom Scenario OPERATION 4DARK 4DELTA that has a Rogue Mark4 OGRE self-mission oriented to destroy all enemy forces in a Paneuropean defended delta. By having a rule like this, I think the Scenario would be balanced no matter what units Paneurope took against the MARK4. As it is, if they take GEV heavy defenses, it becomes unbalanced in favor of Paneurope too much, unfortunately because otherwise, it's pretty tight. Having this rule would really correct that issue because it would allow the OGRE more survivability and the Scenario would be able to play itself out to a closer and more bitter ending. If the OGRE doesn't move and those GEVs want to attack it, it's ready for them. Otherwise they cake-walk the OGRE too much and it really kill-joys the whole game. What I find really good about this rule is the simultaneous nature of it. That would create a great nail-biting tension currently missing from the game. There is a gap between GEVs cake-walking a OGRE when it gets reduced movement and being a fully functioning undamaged one. This would bridge that gap beautifully Imho.
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"So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 01-25-2018 at 05:07 AM. |
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01-25-2018, 04:00 PM | #63 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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In FFT3, there’s “overwatch”, which is the classic form of opportunity fire (i.e., you fire during the enemy movement phase). Normally, stands cannot move and must otherwise be eligible to fire. A stand that moves - and therefore doesn't qualify for Overwatch - can take a Hold Fire marker. (Overwatch is superior to Hold Fire in FFT3, so a stand would conduct Overwatch fire rather than Hiold Fire if possible). Since I’m not advocating an overwatch rule for GEV, movement is irrelevant for Hold Fire. All that’s required is that a unit be eligible to fire and chooses not to do so. |
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01-25-2018, 04:03 PM | #64 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
Your use of "stand" instead of "unit" or "figure" keeps making me imagine an Ogre/Jojo's Bizarre Adventure crossover.
Can self-aware Ogres be stand users? |
01-25-2018, 04:18 PM | #65 |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
Yeah, it’s a habit from A Fistful of TOWs. In FFT, a stand is a single model (representing 4-6 vehicles) or infantry stand (representing a platoon). A unit is a company or battalion. A formation is a battalion, brigade or regiment.
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01-25-2018, 06:30 PM | #66 | |
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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Thanks for sharing this. :) Is it alright if I mention this over on the OGRE PC game Forums and ask if it may be possible to implement this as DLC for the game? Yes, this is that good. Since it would be DLC, people who don't want to use it don't have to. As a side note, I find this Variant Rule may be the explanation of what distinguishes the OGREs with Descartes Packages from ones that have none. Of course, this would mean only OGREs could use this Rule then that have Descartes Packages, which limits it's use in a way I don't really care for, I'd like to see it useable by all units. Unless you had something like OGREs with Descartes Packages use this rule, they can move or not move and use it, and all other units can use the same rule except they must not move in order to use it. Maybe too much there, but I'm always looking for something to give OGREs with Descartes Packages a fitting rule that compliments the descriptive text about it in OGRE MINIATURES.
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"So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 01-25-2018 at 07:04 PM. |
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01-25-2018, 09:20 PM | #67 | |
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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01-26-2018, 05:08 AM | #68 |
Join Date: May 2012
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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01-26-2018, 05:38 AM | #69 |
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
I think this is workable as an optional rule. But one item that seems to have been forgotten, and complicates matters, is that these units should be quite capable of accurate fire while on the move. (This started a long time ago, when American tanks in World War II had some gyrostablization, and both the Russians and French had experimented with it before the war. Also, while the speeds are slower, ships at sea have been doing this for much longer than that, especially in the past 100 years or so once fire direction was established.) An Ogre in particular should have no trouble with the computations involved.
Thus a longer-ranged vehicle might well be able to hit and destroy a shorter-ranged one that is lying in wait for it to approach. Of course the reverse is true when the waiting vehicle has the longer range... see how this gets complicated? So now that would leave us with overwatch, balanced by the moving player being able to fire a unit before it finishes moving. Markers handle that, but it's an extra layer of complexity. YMMV. I might experiment with Hold Fire, but the RAW probably work best most of the time. Phil |
01-26-2018, 08:26 AM | #70 | |
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV
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To GP's earlier point - on a green-map GEV game - setting up even matches to hold a line relies too much on luck. I use it only as a despriation tactic. I'd rather give ground if I can. When I decide to focus on going for the first shot in an exchange I'm likely already in a tough spot. I'd prefer to let that GEV pilot decide to either take a shot at one of 4 LTs before taking the retaliation. Or maybe he'll decide to move to a less important part of the fight. It's much better to set up a localized concentration of force, then use several turns to convert those advantageous clashes into a board-wide advantage. Hold-fire rules might be fun, or could really slow down the game. They could increase the utility of ground-holding tactics, in an initial clash. They might open some new tactical options, but close others. I don't think they'll change the ultimate outcome. (If they do then maybe they're out of balance.) |
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