So...What Next?

[Dave Crowell]

I would love to see more games set in the Ogreverse. As well as fiction, model kits, webcomics, what ever we can get. Even a cute lil Ogre plushie....

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by schoon

This is diverging from the OP, but I think OGRE could really use a low-cost entry point that still has great visual appeal.
...
Something fun and inexpensive to bring new players into the fold...

Any hope for Pocket GEV?

[TheAmishStig]

Originally Posted by Dave Crowell

I would love to see more games set in the Ogreverse. As well as fiction, model kits, webcomics, what ever we can get. Even a cute lil Ogre plushie....

With as much trouble as they're having clearing the Chibithulhu infestation out of the rafters of W23 I doubt we'll see that any time soon...

...but I would totally buy a Mk.ChibIII.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by Dave Crowell

I would love to see more games set in the Ogreverse. As well as fiction, model kits, webcomics, what ever we can get. Even a cute lil Ogre plushie....

Ooooo! I'd buy a Mark III or a Mark V Ogre plushie! Especially if it was in a rich red! (So sue me, I'm from Nebraska! I'd name it "Big Red"!)

Bowser

[masockwell]

Hello Everyone:

I'm a bit late to this thread, but please indulge me as I put in my two cents.

Back on page 3, a series of posts mentioned Advanced Squad Leader. Yes, it is still being played. It is probably the game I play the most, although OGRE is the first game I ever purchased with my own earned money. ASL is not played only by 50+ year old grognards; it continually draws in new players and has a pretty vibrant (fanatic??) fan base. So the idea that a 40-year-old game can't bring in new players is false.

I think a bit of history is necessary. As Avalon Hill was sliding down the hill into oblivion, it brought in Multi-Man publishing to continue ASL. When Hasbro purchased Avalon Hill, MMP licensed ASL from them. For a while there was a bit of a copyright war between Hasbro and some of the third party producers and the fan-driven operations. Over time, the legal issues have been pretty much worked out.

What makes 2018 the "golden age" for ASL in my opinion is the third party producers. Small, fan-driven companies like Bounding Fire Productions, Le Franc Tireur, Schwerpunkt, Lone Canuck Publications, Friendly Fire, and Dispatches from the Bunker continue to push the boundries of ASL forward. But they all do things a bit different; BFP and LFT produce larger modules with counters, maps and module-specific rules. Schwerpunkt, LCP, and FF produce scenario packs for use with the ASL geo-boards and DftB produces a semi-annual fanzine with articles and four scenarios an issue.

Combine this with annual support from MMP in the form of an annual, sponsored tournament (Winter Offensive) that produces a scenario pack (usually 2-3 scenarios) and you have a pretty fair amount of ASL material that comes out each year. Note that this does not include semi-regular MMP ASL Journals and historical modules. The one thing that links MMP with the third party producers is a core set of rules (the Big Orange Book), the geo-board concept, and a common counter design.

This is where I believe that SJG has made a mistake with the promotion and development of OGRE. Yes, I know that OGRE is Steve's first game design and thus his baby, but as I have stated before on this and on other forums, following the ASL path might have taken OGRE much farther than where it is now. This fanbase is pretty creative (present company excepted); with core rules, proper licensing , and one missing element I think we would have more OGRE than we have time to play.

But what is that missing element? A fleshed out timeline and a framework to hang new scenarios onto. Being a historical game, in ASL you can research a particular battle and develop a scenario around it. Unfortunately (well, maybe not unfortunately as OGRE deals with a lot of destruction), that's not so easy to do with OGRE. It needs a creative person to detail out the "future history" (hattip to Robert Heinlein) on which to build its scenarios. License out the counter design, scenario format, etc. and let the creatives out there have at it.

In my mind, the next thing is an annual, SJG sponsored OGRE tournament in Austin. Of course, a new scenario pack would be released at the same time. Right now, in addition to the MMP tournament, I can find an ASL tournament probably every month of the year. Hell, the biggest one is in Cleveland of all places every October (I can pick on Cleveland since I'm from NE Ohio), which draws 150+ players from all over the world. How many international OGRE players might come to Austin for a week to play, socialize, meet Steve, etc.? My guess: more than you think.

Next, although ODE is awesome, I sometimes think that its physical size is a detriment -- you've gotta have a big table! My belief is that this intimidates new players somewhat. I've long advocated for a smaller version that fits on a standard table. Honestly, I play using my old paper maps and cardboard counters much more often than I play on ODE. Maybe 1" hexes, OGREs are two hexes in size, etc. You know you'd buy it again.

Just my opinion, YMMV. Thanks for reading.


Mark

[Izzy_B]

Originally Posted by masockwell

How many international OGRE players might come to Austin for a week to play, socialize, meet Steve, etc.? My guess: more than you think.

Next, although ODE is awesome, I sometimes think that its physical size is a detriment

Mark,

I can confirm your comments about ASL fan base from what my step brother has told me. Your ideas there kind of align with a comment I made earlier/elsewhere about the Ogre system being a bit of a framework by now. Dont know if Phil/Steve/Drew have any enthusiasm for licensing though.

As for a trip to Austin from Tokyo, I'm sure I could make an excuse. My wife loved the city when we were there last year and it will always have a spot in my heart.

As for the overwhelming size of DE, 6e fits the sweet spot plus you can always just use parts of things rather than the whole gamezilla.

[philreed]

Originally Posted by dwalend

Any hope for Pocket GEV?

No. There's not enough demand to justify the expenses, and splitting the audience isn't good for the game.

[DocRailgun]

Licensing D&D (allowing an OGL) created a lot of massive failures and costs a lot of people money. The only lasting success was Pathfinder.

I would guess SJG probably doesn't want the Ogre-equivalent of _The Book of Erotic Fantasy_.

Originally Posted by masockwell

Hello Everyone:

I'm a bit late to this thread, but please indulge me as I put in my two cents.

Back on page 3, a series of posts mentioned Advanced Squad Leader. Yes, it is still being played. It is probably the game I play the most, although OGRE is the first game I ever purchased with my own earned money. ASL is not played only by 50+ year old grognards; it continually draws in new players and has a pretty vibrant (fanatic??) fan base. So the idea that a 40-year-old game can't bring in new players is false.

I think a bit of history is necessary. As Avalon Hill was sliding down the hill into oblivion, it brought in Multi-Man publishing to continue ASL. When Hasbro purchased Avalon Hill, MMP licensed ASL from them. For a while there was a bit of a copyright war between Hasbro and some of the third party producers and the fan-driven operations. Over time, the legal issues have been pretty much worked out.

What makes 2018 the "golden age" for ASL in my opinion is the third party producers. Small, fan-driven companies like Bounding Fire Productions, Le Franc Tireur, Schwerpunkt, Lone Canuck Publications, Friendly Fire, and Dispatches from the Bunker continue to push the boundries of ASL forward. But they all do things a bit different; BFP and LFT produce larger modules with counters, maps and module-specific rules. Schwerpunkt, LCP, and FF produce scenario packs for use with the ASL geo-boards and DftB produces a semi-annual fanzine with articles and four scenarios an issue.

Combine this with annual support from MMP in the form of an annual, sponsored tournament (Winter Offensive) that produces a scenario pack (usually 2-3 scenarios) and you have a pretty fair amount of ASL material that comes out each year. Note that this does not include semi-regular MMP ASL Journals and historical modules. The one thing that links MMP with the third party producers is a core set of rules (the Big Orange Book), the geo-board concept, and a common counter design.

This is where I believe that SJG has made a mistake with the promotion and development of OGRE. Yes, I know that OGRE is Steve's first game design and thus his baby, but as I have stated before on this and on other forums, following the ASL path might have taken OGRE much farther than where it is now. This fanbase is pretty creative (present company excepted); with core rules, proper licensing , and one missing element I think we would have more OGRE than we have time to play.

But what is that missing element? A fleshed out timeline and a framework to hang new scenarios onto. Being a historical game, in ASL you can research a particular battle and develop a scenario around it. Unfortunately (well, maybe not unfortunately as OGRE deals with a lot of destruction), that's not so easy to do with OGRE. It needs a creative person to detail out the "future history" (hattip to Robert Heinlein) on which to build its scenarios. License out the counter design, scenario format, etc. and let the creatives out there have at it.

In my mind, the next thing is an annual, SJG sponsored OGRE tournament in Austin. Of course, a new scenario pack would be released at the same time. Right now, in addition to the MMP tournament, I can find an ASL tournament probably every month of the year. Hell, the biggest one is in Cleveland of all places every October (I can pick on Cleveland since I'm from NE Ohio), which draws 150+ players from all over the world. How many international OGRE players might come to Austin for a week to play, socialize, meet Steve, etc.? My guess: more than you think.

Next, although ODE is awesome, I sometimes think that its physical size is a detriment -- you've gotta have a big table! My belief is that this intimidates new players somewhat. I've long advocated for a smaller version that fits on a standard table. Honestly, I play using my old paper maps and cardboard counters much more often than I play on ODE. Maybe 1" hexes, OGREs are two hexes in size, etc. You know you'd buy it again.

Just my opinion, YMMV. Thanks for reading.


Mark

[Tim Kauffman]

OGRE: The LAST WAR Game (a RISK-Like game idea) became a topic and generated some fantastic concept images (3rd page of thread) over on BGG:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread...at-do-you-want

[Desert Scribe]

Originally Posted by DocRailgun

Licensing D&D (allowing an OGL) created a lot of massive failures and costs a lot of people money. The only lasting success was Pathfinder.

There's a difference between a license and an open license. I don't know if ASL third party products go out under an open license or a specific agreement with the rights holder.