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Old 02-29-2020, 06:03 AM   #1
Anders
 
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Default Dungeon Fantasy with a ton of House Rules

I need help converting DF/DFRPG to a setting with a couple of rule changes.

1. KYOS
2. Per and Will as their own separate attributes.
3. Two new attributes: Charisma and Psyche (Renamed Quintessence)
4. Incantation Magic for wizards
5. 150-point base (this is flexible; I can imagine going up to 175 points if I notice something deeply off - looking at the Bard and Martial Artist templates especially)

So...

1) Is this utter folly?
2) Do you think I should base my templates on DF or DFRPG?
3) Do you have any thoughts on how to do the templates?
4) IQ loses a lot of utility with Charisma and Psyche... should the cost be adjusted down?
5) I dimly recall Kromm talking about what he did with the various classes in DFRPG, like toning down the Barbarian's nature connection and streamlining the bard. Looked through the designer's notes but couldn't find anything. Does anyone know where I could find that?

I put it here rather than in the DFRPG because it's shamelessly based on GURPS, not DFRPG. With all the rule changes, it could hardly be anything else.
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Last edited by Anders; 02-29-2020 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 02-29-2020, 06:40 AM   #2
ericthered
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy with a ton of House Rules

4) its not just charisma and quintessence, its also will and per, which are exceptionally useful components of IQ in DF. Adjusting it down to [10] is probably just fine. The thief will thank you.

2) I'd base it on both. DF interacts better with points and has a lot more exotic templates, while the DFRPG has some nice refinements from being written second.
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Old 02-29-2020, 06:46 AM   #3
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy with a ton of House Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
2) Do you think I should base my templates on DF or DFRPG?
Given that you're getting fairly in-depth, I suspect DF will get you more mileage, but I don't have DFRPG to compare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
3) Do you have any thoughts on how to do the templates?
Given you want [150] for starting characters, I'd suggest using the standard Henchmen from DF15 with an extra [25], or possibly Bargain Henchmen with [88] lenses to get them up to the [150] level. Given you're changing the magic system, building mages as Bargain Henchmen with an [88] "mage" lens of some flavor may be worthwhile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
4) IQ loses a lot of utility with Charisma and Psyche... should the cost be adjusted down?
Certainly. [10] is likely appropriate, although unless your DF campaigns involve a lot of intellectual challenges, [5] may well be appropriate. I mean, you've stripped Per, Will, magic use, and social uses of IQ out.

Note this does kind of leave DX as the odd man out, being the only trait worth [20]. If you wanted to divide DX up into Dexterity (DEX) [10] and Agility (AGI) [10], with the former covering the same ground as High Manual Dexterity as well as ranged combat, and the latter covering the rest of RAW DX, that might be an option (although honestly, that seems a little unbalanced in AGI's favor).
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Old 02-29-2020, 06:57 AM   #4
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy with a ton of House Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
4) its not just charisma and quintessence, its also will and per, which are exceptionally useful components of IQ in DF. Adjusting it down to [10] is probably just fine. The thief will thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Certainly. [10] is likely appropriate, although unless your DF campaigns involve a lot of intellectual challenges, [5] may well be appropriate. I mean, you've stripped Per, Will, magic use, and social uses of IQ out.
Since I plan on involving the Sage, I bet the sages of the world will thank me too. Good. Thank you both.
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"Our life is what our thoughts make it." Marcus Aurelius
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Old 02-29-2020, 08:52 AM   #5
Raekai
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy with a ton of House Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
I need help converting DF/DFRPG to a setting with a couple of rule changes.

1. KYOS
2. Per and Will as their own separate attributes.
3. Two new attributes: Charisma and Psyche (Renamed Quintessence)
4. Incantation Magic for wizards
5. 150-point base (this is flexible; I can imagine going up to 175 points if I notice something deeply off - looking at the Bard and Martial Artist templates especially)

So...

1) Is this utter folly?
2) Do you think I should base my templates on DF or DFRPG?
3) Do you have any thoughts on how to do the templates?
4) IQ loses a lot of utility with Charisma and Psyche... should the cost be adjusted down?
5) I dimly recall Kromm talking about what he did with the various classes in DFRPG, like toning down the Barbarian's nature connection and streamlining the bard. Looked through the designer's notes but couldn't find anything. Does anyone know where I could find that?

I put it here rather than in the DFRPG because it's shamelessly based on GURPS, not DFRPG. With all the rule changes, it could hardly be anything else.
For KYOS, it's going to be a bit tricky. So much has to change for KYOS to work well, and I know because I've tried the same thing multiple times. If you have to run every monster through KYOS, it becomes a lot of work and extra notes to keep track of. You will also want to convert DR values to scale better with the new damage, and that is going to mess up low-tech armor. The new damage values themselves are pretty weird, but HP still remains quadratic, so it's not all bad. I recommend looking at the first few posts from this thread for good ideas. Likewise, I recommend pricing Striking ST at 2 points/level and Lifting ST at 6 points/level.

Per and Will as their own separate attributes is always a great idea in my opinion. In my upcoming game, I have the following attributes: Strength (ST), Agility (AG), Finesse (FN), Health (HT), Presence (PR), Keenness (KN), Intellect (IN), and Willpower (WL). All are 10 points/level.

Agility is a measure of balance and flexibility. It governs your ability at athletics, fighting, and the coordination of any full-body movement. Finesse is a measure of manual dexterity and fine motor ability. It controls your precision with anything that calls for a delicate touch. Presence is a measure of social intelligence as well as emotional intelligence. It helps with influencing others, whether it’s by lying, gentle persuasion, or being intimidating. Keenness is a measure of perception and general alertness. Intellect is a measure of creativity, cunning, memory, and reason. It rules basic knowledge as well as most arts and crafts. Willpower is a measure of determination and resolve. It represents mental resistance to such things as fear, stress, and social influence.

Magic is typically derived from ((Will + HT)/2) in my games, but, if I were to go the Quintessence route, I would simply base magic off of (10 + Magery) without having a whole separate attribute for it. I find that it balances a bit better.

As for Incantation Magic, it's a neat system, but I haven't really used it much.

For the 150-point base...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Given you want [150] for starting characters, I'd suggest using the standard Henchmen from DF15 with an extra [25], or possibly Bargain Henchmen with [88] lenses to get them up to the [150] level. Given you're changing the magic system, building mages as Bargain Henchmen with an [88] "mage" lens of some flavor may be worthwhile.
I would go with the Henchman from DF 15 as well, and I would just throw those extra 25 points back into the advantages part of the template, which will leave extra room for PCs to choose races.
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