Shapeshift

warhorse11h · 05-04-2019, 05:34 AM

Two questions about shapeshifting.

1. I understand how to work the changes to ST and DX. Points for them in the new form cannot exceed the total of ST and DX, and shift and flow to fit the new form. But what happens to IQ is not clear, at least to me. The rules imply that it is lowered to fit the new animal form if necessary. If true, this becomes a spell no wizard would ever cast on himself unless he had someone he trusted with his life to restore him. It just doesn't fit, to me. Am I missing something?

2. Spells listed to end the shapeshift seem to be missing one that should be there. Remove Thrown Spell. It would end the shapeshift wouldn't it?

Chris Rice · 05-04-2019, 06:19 AM

I get the impression that the Wizard will often use the spell on another person or creature. If they use it on themselves they'd be very foolish to choose a form with a low IQ as that would leave them stuck and potentially unable to turn back.

On your second point; I wouldn't allow Remove Thrown Spell to work against Shapeshifting. Although the Spell itself is a thrown spell, the effect is permanent, so once it has taken effect it is no longer magic - you've actually turned into a frog or whatever. It does mention that Dissolve Enchantment will work, as that is designed to remove permanent Spell effects.

warhorse11h · 05-04-2019, 06:42 AM

Thank you. I thought that was how it was supposed to read, but, it just seemed incongruous to me. Perhaps I'm to much influenced by the Belgariad and Mallorean, but I would prefer it to operate similar to how shapeshifting is handled there.

I have incorporated some house rules for it that change it into either a powerful curse placed upon someone else or a powerful, but very expensive tool in the hands of a wizard. One that can have unexpected results if the new shape is maintained for too long.

hcobb · 05-04-2019, 07:32 AM

"The spell is permanent unless removed by Dissolve Enchantment, a wish, or another shapeshift."

I've taken this as Shapeshift cast in the reverse sense to simply undo the previous shift.

What happens if a 300 year old sorceress simply keeps shifting to her 20 year old form?

FireHorse · 05-04-2019, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb

What happens if a 300 year old sorceress simply keeps shifting to her 20 year old form?

She gets to dance at the monthly Wizards' Guild parties without breaking her hip.

RVA_Grandpa · 05-04-2019, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireHorse

She gets to dance at the monthly Wizards' Guild parties without breaking her hip.

When she uses her "staff to brass pole" spell things really get interesting!

Axly Suregrip · 05-04-2019, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

I get the impression that the Wizard will often use the spell on another person or creature. If they use it on themselves they'd be very foolish to choose a form with a low IQ as that would leave them stuck and potentially unable to turn back.

On your second point; I wouldn't allow Remove Thrown Spell to work against Shapeshifting. Although the Spell itself is a thrown spell, the effect is permanent, so once it has taken effect it is no longer magic - you've actually turned into a frog or whatever. It does mention that Dissolve Enchantment will work, as that is designed to remove permanent Spell effects.

Chris, I agree with your conclusions. I did want to point out that Reveal Magic states it will detect someone that was Shapeshifted. So, while it is true that it is a permanent change, it does have a remaining magic trace. (ITL p.19). I think the intent is that Remove Thrown Spell is not strong enough, so I still agree with your conclusions.

JLV · 05-04-2019, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

I get the impression that the Wizard will often use the spell on another person or creature. If they use it on themselves they'd be very foolish to choose a form with a low IQ as that would leave them stuck and potentially unable to turn back.

On your second point; I wouldn't allow Remove Thrown Spell to work against Shapeshifting. Although the Spell itself is a thrown spell, the effect is permanent, so once it has taken effect it is no longer magic - you've actually turned into a frog or whatever. It does mention that Dissolve Enchantment will work, as that is designed to remove permanent Spell effects.

I strongly concur with this.

KevinJ · 05-05-2019, 12:08 AM

I could see Remove Curse working if the Shapeshift were tied to a cursed object with the curse (and shapeshift) ending when the object is removed, but other than that you are limited to the three methods listed in the spell.

Shoug · 05-05-2019, 01:59 PM

Could house rule a 1 IQ talent called, "Harmonious Compromise" that lets a Shapeshifter retain his Intellect upon changing shapes.

05-04-2019, 05:34 AM	#1
warhorse11h Join Date: Aug 2018	Shapeshift Two questions about shapeshifting. 1. I understand how to work the changes to ST and DX. Points for them in the new form cannot exceed the total of ST and DX, and shift and flow to fit the new form. But what happens to IQ is not clear, at least to me. The rules imply that it is lowered to fit the new animal form if necessary. If true, this becomes a spell no wizard would ever cast on himself unless he had someone he trusted with his life to restore him. It just doesn't fit, to me. Am I missing something? 2. Spells listed to end the shapeshift seem to be missing one that should be there. Remove Thrown Spell. It would end the shapeshift wouldn't it?

05-04-2019, 06:19 AM	#2
Chris Rice Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland	Re: Shapeshift I get the impression that the Wizard will often use the spell on another person or creature. If they use it on themselves they'd be very foolish to choose a form with a low IQ as that would leave them stuck and potentially unable to turn back. On your second point; I wouldn't allow Remove Thrown Spell to work against Shapeshifting. Although the Spell itself is a thrown spell, the effect is permanent, so once it has taken effect it is no longer magic - you've actually turned into a frog or whatever. It does mention that Dissolve Enchantment will work, as that is designed to remove permanent Spell effects.

05-04-2019, 06:42 AM	#3
warhorse11h Join Date: Aug 2018	Re: Shapeshift Thank you. I thought that was how it was supposed to read, but, it just seemed incongruous to me. Perhaps I'm to much influenced by the Belgariad and Mallorean, but I would prefer it to operate similar to how shapeshifting is handled there. I have incorporated some house rules for it that change it into either a powerful curse placed upon someone else or a powerful, but very expensive tool in the hands of a wizard. One that can have unexpected results if the new shape is maintained for too long.

05-04-2019, 07:32 AM	#4
hcobb Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Pacheco, California	Re: Shapeshift "The spell is permanent unless removed by Dissolve Enchantment, a wish, or another shapeshift." I've taken this as Shapeshift cast in the reverse sense to simply undo the previous shift. What happens if a 300 year old sorceress simply keeps shifting to her 20 year old form? __________________ -HJC

05-05-2019, 12:08 AM	#9
KevinJ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Arizona	Re: Shapeshift I could see Remove Curse working if the Shapeshift were tied to a cursed object with the curse (and shapeshift) ending when the object is removed, but other than that you are limited to the three methods listed in the spell. __________________ So you've got the tiger by the tail. Now what?

05-05-2019, 01:59 PM	#10
Shoug Join Date: May 2019	Re: Shapeshift Could house rule a 1 IQ talent called, "Harmonious Compromise" that lets a Shapeshifter retain his Intellect upon changing shapes.