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Old 04-27-2018, 03:22 PM   #1
johndallman
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Default [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

Debt is a mundane social disadvantage, worth [-1 to -20]. You have a monetary debt, and need to make monthly payments equal to 1% of your starting wealth per [-1] you get from it. Since this is starting wealth adjusted by wealth level, the payments can be quite substantial. To buy this off, in part or full, you need to be up to date with the payments, pay the points, and have an in-setting explanation agreed with the GM. If you don’t keep up the payments, you may be facing repo men, the courts, or the mob.

Debt appeared at GURPS 4e, although ideas for it floated around earlier, IIRC. I haven’t seen it used, although the campaigns I run and play in don’t tend to have detailed accounting. It shows up on templates as debts to the thieves’ guild, student debt, or debts incurred by a socially required standard of living, for the likes of nobles or master merchants, which they don’t have the income to pay for. It’s a common motive for crimes in Mysteries, and a motivating factor in Spaceships. Escaping debt generally requires vanishing forever, into Fantasy: Portal Realms, into Space, or other planes of existence. Thaumatology: Urban Magics has some interesting ways to gain supernatural assistance via debts, and Ultra-Tech offers new bodies on credit.

Has Debt made life hard in your games?
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

Debt, like all the money-based advantages and disadvantages, works poorly in games where the PCs can gain significant wealth from adventuring.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Debt, like all the money-based advantages and disadvantages, works poorly in games where the PCs can gain significant wealth from adventuring.
I would say on the contrary: the higher levels of Debt are unplayable unless one has an income source other than Job Rolls, since one's discretionary income is equal to approximately 10% of one's Starting Wealth, but the higher-level Debt can be about 20% Starting Wealth. With adventuring income, the disadvantage becomes playable at all levels again.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

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Debt, like all the money-based advantages and disadvantages, works poorly in games where the PCs can gain significant wealth from adventuring.
While true, not every game uses a "murder-hobo" economy. I've seen Debt used in pulp era, modern, and sci-fi games, often as a motivating factor on PCs' sheets: they're usually trying to stay one step ahead of the collectors. Even in some fantasy games, a Debt can provide impetus for going on the mission/quest.

I've sometimes seen NPCs say, "Do this job for us, and we won't collect your Debt this time around." (I've also seen them lie and attempt to collect anyway. Usually using hired thugs.)

Basically, if the adventure doesn't have a guaranteed monetary payout that will affect your Wealth level, such as an urban vigilante, a starship crewman where you're paid a salary rather than shares, or are part of an expedition bankrolled by an investor who expects 90% of the loot, taking Debt can get your char into all sorts of trouble.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
I would say on the contrary: the higher levels of Debt are unplayable unless one has an income source other than Job Rolls
Actually, it's pretty trivial to cover at low TL as long as you're living at a status level that's lower than your wealth level.

Debt 20, at TL 3 normal wealth, is $200/month. CoL at status 0 is $600, CoL at status -1 is $300, standard income is $700, so by living like a miser you can cover your debt and still have $200/month in disposable income. This gives you the penalties of living below your status (B265), but that's not -20 in disads, it's not even -5 in disads (being an actual status -1 would be -5).

Then we get into adventuring income. Let's say four characters each have a debt of $100/months. Character A is struggling, so that is a [-20] debt for him. Character B is average wealth, so [-10]. Character C is comfortable, so [-5]. Character D is [-2]. Now, if they're actually working at jobs that match their wealth level, those relative values might be fair -- but for adventurers, unless your adventuring party splits loot based on the PCs wealth level, the real disadvantage is probably similar for all four characters.
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While true, not every game uses a "murder-hobo" economy.
Well yes, some games don't make adventuring about gaining wealth. I already noted them as an exception.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

The closest I've come to this is the need to make ship payments in a Traveller game, and that's more of a collective Debt than something on any single character sheet. But I tend not to worry about money in detail in most of the games I run or play in.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

Why paying tithe (one-tenth of income) is just a quirk while Debt 10 is worth 10 points?
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

One is your choice, while the other is enforced.
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Old 04-27-2018, 05:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
One is your choice, while the other is enforced.
I agree that should reduce the point value but not as much as 90%. There's many self-imposed disadvantages in the game like Sense of Duty that indeed costs less than their enforced counterpart but these are not quirks.
I think a quirk in this case would be something like "Pays tithe when he's doing well", while someone who pays tithe even when he's missing meal and unable to buy new clothes should get 5 points or so.
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Old 04-27-2018, 05:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

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Why paying tithe (one-tenth of income) is just a quirk while Debt 10 is worth 10 points?
A tithe is 10% of your income. Debt 10 is 10% of your starting wealth.

Assuming Average Wealth (double both at Comfortable, x5 at Wealthy, x20 at Very Wealthy, and so on)...

TL 3: Tithe = $70, Debt 10 = $100. So I see your point there.
TL 4: Tithe = $80, Debt 10 = $200.
TL 8: Tithe = $260. Debt 10 = $2000 (out of $2600 total income...).

So Debt becomes crippling at higher TL.

The other issue is job security. With Vow, you essentially only have to tithe when making money, and an amount proportional to how much you'd have to spare. With Debt, if you miss out on your income for a few months (which is a valid risk for adventurers), Debt doesn't care - you still have to pay up. So that $2000 at TL 8? It's just adding up and causing problems all the time you're unable to make the money. Instead of giving what you can as with Vow, one of the examples of what's required to pay a debt is stealing. The disadvantage can literally force you to steal.

Essentially Vow only makes you pay money when you make money. Debt kicks you while you're down. With progressively spikier footwear.

Last edited by Railstar; 04-27-2018 at 09:44 PM.
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