[MH] Gun Wielding Foes

[Kalzazz]

How well would Hunters be expected to do if the monsters as well as being monsters tended to also have gun wielding human mook friends at times?

For instance, how well would Hunters tend to fair if in addition to monsters they also faced say a dozen goons with AK-47s (with say 12-14 skill), though a couple less monsters obviously

It does not necessarily need to be a dozen goons with AK-47s, that is just my 'go to, absolutely classic and mandatory in every modern campaign' cannon fodder encounter and/or extra filler to be added to bulk up serious fights (to the point that my PC design guidelines for modern games explicitly specify 'can handle a half dozen goons with AK-47s')

What sort of adjustments if any would be needed to adapt Monster Hunters Hunters and such toward the understanding they may also encounter foes with guns?

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

For instance, how well would Hunters tend to fair if in addition to monsters they also faced say a dozen goons with AK-47s (with say 12-14 skill), though a couple less monsters obviously

That's ... rather high for a 'goon'. I'd expect something more in the 10-12 range.

[carllarson]

Its the same skill as most of the templates. Basically goons that shoot as good as the heroes.

Half a set of tactics, and goodnight heroes.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by carllarson

Its the same skill as most of the templates. Basically goons that shoot as good as the heroes.

IMHO, goons aren't supposed to be as good as the heroes.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

How well would Hunters be expected to do if the monsters as well as being monsters tended to also have gun wielding human mook friends at times?

For instance, how well would Hunters tend to fair if in addition to monsters they also faced say a dozen goons with AK-47s (with say 12-14 skill), though a couple less monsters obviously

It does not necessarily need to be a dozen goons with AK-47s, that is just my 'go to, absolutely classic and mandatory in every modern campaign' cannon fodder encounter and/or extra filler to be added to bulk up serious fights (to the point that my PC design guidelines for modern games explicitly specify 'can handle a half dozen goons with AK-47s')

What sort of adjustments if any would be needed to adapt Monster Hunters Hunters and such toward the understanding they may also encounter foes with guns?

In an encounter like that, most of the templates would be dead very fast. Some of the Inhumans would fair better, unless the AK-47 guys were prepped for them. Similarly, if the Hunters have a Witch and enough prep time, they could probably neutralize the goons either without a fight or with minimal casualties.

Still, a group of people with professional-level skill and military weapons are going to completely murder even Monster Hunters level humans unless the Hunters are able to ambush them. There's only so much that Luck and buying success can do.

[starslayer]

I will point out that when Kal mentions 'goons' he means the martial arts style of 'has a skill in attack, always attacks, auto-ko at HP0, rarely uses cover, makes moral rolls when bad stuff goes down' goon.

They are thugs who have had low cost highly available weapons, no armour and minimal survival instincts.

[Kalzazz]

Well, the AK-47 is the classic weapon of drug dealers, evil minions, ninjas, terrorists, gangsters and other 'generic enemy riff raff' everywhere, so I wouldn't expect enemies to be using other weapons unless they were feeling shockingly original

I could definitely see dropping their skill levels to the 10-12 range though, the 12-14 certainly isnt mandatory (it just is the usual skill range I've always used for mooks)

[PK]

MH does assume that some foes will wield guns -- the cultists rather rely upon them, many of the rogues have ranged attack skills, and even some monsters are pragmatic enough to cap a punk. Hunters have a good Dodge, impressive movement, and plenty of ways to avoid getting tagged (wildcard points, character points, Luck, etc.) until they can either get to cover, close the distance to the foe, or take the foe out with their own ranged attacks.

I agree with Brandon that if you're pitting your hunters against a roomful of goons with guns, they're not going to have skill in the 15-17 range. Consider that cultists -- who are not mooks, but are considered semi-dangerous foes! -- have Guns (Pistol)-14. It's less realistic for them to be experts with rifles; in fact, I'd use the default Guns (Rifle)-12 off of the Pistol skill. So a room packed with AK-47-wielding cultists is still very dangerous, but only because there'd be a lot of lead in the air, not because their individual skills are that good.

Rogues and powerful monsters, on the other hand, can have far higher skill levels. But there'll only be one, two, or a handful of those at a time -- the hunters are not going to run into "a room full of two dozen rogue experiments, all armed with rifles" in a game. I mean . . . at least I hope you don't do that to your poor players! There's "giving them a challenge," and then there's "I want you all dead." :)

[Kalzazz]

Out of curiousity, why would it be less realistic to be an expert with a rifle than a pistol? I would have thought for 'generic people who are not Police types' it would be much more common for folks to be good with rifles than handguns?

[safisher]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Out of curiousity, why would it be less realistic to be an expert with a rifle than a pistol? I would have thought for 'generic people who are not Police types' it would be much more common for folks to be good with rifles than handguns?

Off-hand, I'd say that in polite societies, carrying rifles around is more likely to be noticed than pistols. You can pack a pistol into a restaurant or tenement building without being reported to the police, but you can't carry AKs around all that easily. Yes, you could use a folding stock, wear a coat, etc. but it's still a bulky weapon to be schlepping around a city. Of course, if you meet the cultists in their arctic retreat, you can bet they'll be armed to the teeth.